You’re speaking as if the US started it. They did not. Russia literally invaded Ukraine in the false pretense that they are under the control of a Nazi regime. There is no Nazi regime, barely even a functioning contingent, and certainly nothing out of proportion with the rest of the world’s far right representation. If anything, this “proxy war” serves two purposes: 1. To field test new technology and 2. To undercut Russian propaganda. It’s apparent to anyone paying attention that Russia is the aggressor, they’ve vastly oversold their own capability, and their propaganda machine is flailing.
I’m not saying there are no issues within the US that urgently need resolved, but let’s be honest with ourselves – authoritarianism is authoritarianism no matter their lat/long or cultural/economic history, at home and abroad.
Edit: got caught up in my own argument and forgot to mention the obvious third reason: to help the sovereign nation of Ukraine defend itself from invasion.
It was a US orchestrated, planned and funded fascist coup.
They decided who would be in the (fascist) government, proven by the Nuland-Pyatt call.
Then those nazi scum terrorised the east and south for 8 years.
On the orders of UK US they broke the Minsk agreements, also proven and were going for a final push to ethnicly cleanse those who didn’t want to live under their regime.
But then ‘Russia started it’ LOL
The US started it.
Just like it did with Venezuela (failed so far), Myanmar (failed), Hong Kong (failed), Belarus (failed), Kazachstan (failed), Georgia (failed), Afghanistan (ruined and failed), Pakistan (to a lesser extend) and Syria (ruined but success).
Not to mention the “Arab Spring” (success), so Lybia among a host of MENA nations as well.
If the US hadn’t been involved with its subservient media, but some other country, like Russia, being involved then there would be questions like:
“How are these interim presidents like Ahmed al-Sharaa being selected?”
“So all of these interim presidents are all living in Russia and move from Russia into these countries as presidents?”
“And these people are recieving peace prizes in Russia/Belarus/North Korea?”
“So most of these people in Finland that’s in civil war right now don’t know at all who this interim president is, was never on the ballot, lived most of his life in Russia, but it’s okay, because this is an interim president, selected ‘internationally’?”
And headlines like:
“Russia installs another Puppet President into Finland under the pretense of democracy and soveirignity.”
“Russia calls to implement another slave shield zone above the nation of Greece, dubbed ‘no-fly zone’ in Russian language”
The only thing Ukraine stands out of the list is that Zelensky actually had been elected by the people and started out as an internal project for an oligarch, unlike CIA puppets Ahmed al-Sharaa, Hamid Karzai, Juan Guaidó, Reza Pahlavi, Fethullah Gülen, Aung San Suu Kyi, Joshua Wong, Ursula von der Leyen and others.
Zelensky however was about as thruthful in his campaign being an anti-war president as Trump has been and so his pro-Russian voters got completely betrayed, because he decided that he wanted to join the EU at all cost, thinking that this would turn his country into an economic miracle following the same economic trend as neighbouring Poland, repeating history with truisms as the economic landscape of the world has changed dramatically between the days Poland started to recieve EU subsidies and US investments and when Zelensky became president, with Russia in a much better position where it was back then and so Ukrainian people with growing economic ties to Russia only further entrenched themselves towards support for Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine because it violated the Minsk 3 agreements time and time again and because of mistrust of the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement that included military cooperation with NATO countries, which aroused suspicions of Ukraine trying to join NATO, an anti-Russia organisation, with Ukraine being an artificially created nation by the Soviet Union that contains mostly parts of Russia and Poland.
The US supporting Ukrainian nazis thing was just the most emotionally infuriating part, but not the most worrying as suppression of the Russian people in the Donbass was, who tried to vote themselves out of the country, but were violently suppressed.
The invasion was a warning to Ukraine that if it did not sign the agreement that it would refrain itself from joining NATO,
it could expect a devestating war, which it now does.
If anyone has footage of this by the way, please direct me to it.
I did not save the footage of people going to polling stations and being shot at by Ukrainian troops.
The footage I saw had loud sweeping music/commentary added to it,
which did a giant disservice in my opinion to spread the atrocity that happened that day.
You are portraying Russia, a global superpower, as the unilateral victim. I am saying there is more nuance, especially concerning superpowers. I don’t support usurpation or invasion by anyone. You can’t suppose that ideologically and economically opposed nations won’t both editorialize (which seems here to be your concern, editorializing). Yet here we are.
The US did start it, by constantly poking with threats and actions here and there. Like in 2014 when they overthrew the actual democratically elected Ukraine government for the crime of being “Too friendly with Russia” and then propped up the current Nazi regime that is completely russo-phobic.
They even went so far as to rename a city because it had a “Russian spelling”.
Right, because the US told Yanukovych to brutalize his people, and also told the people to revolt and the supreme court to remove him from office, so he could flee to Russia. Not saying the West didn’t see this as an opportunity to strengthen economic ties, but it was not a bear and stick moment. Why do you insist that only the West is at fault? Culpability is shared
Why would he tell people to “revolt” when he was the president of the country? That doesn’t even make sense. Who did he “brutalize,” specifically? It was the coup snipers who shot people in Maidan from rooftops. It was a false flag attack.
“I don’t have facts so I’m just going to stick to my unfunded opinion in line with what my western regime told me what happened.”
That shit don’t work with ML people.
Always know what they’re talking about, and can back it up.
See, the mistake you made was assuming anyone here is capable of understanding how nuanced debate works. It’s all or nothing around here. And if you so much as merely imply that communism/russia/authoritarianism/china is flawed in any way-
You get your comment removed and face the possibility of having you yourself removed.
I’d strongly suggest you search elsewhere if you’re looking for an actual conversation on topics like this, because speaking southward in a northbound wind-tunnel won’t ever result in anyone getting the message.
We just refuse to dance to a bunch of removedlibs tune. Fuck off to Reddit and libjerk yourself to Hillary Clinton/AOC/Bernie/KKKamala Harris if you have a problem with that.
Oh make no mistake, I have no desire whatsoever to waste my time trying to illustrate the concept of nuance in a discussion here. Whether it be about politics or government operated socio-economic systems- I’ve been on lemmy long enough to see how you all operate here, and debate on these topics is an exercise is abject futility.
I’m simply here, for no other purpose than to warn a fellow user before they fall victim to the time-sink that is debating with pseudo-socialists and communists….
Nothing more.
Now, go ahead with your bait tactics. I love seeing what little tricks you all try to use to goad me into the argument you crave so dearly.
You cowardly little worm. You know you can’t actually defend your position so you’re going to proudly declare that you’re just inherently right and nuanced and just the smartest little boy, and therefor everyone who disagrees with you is just inherently wrong and stupid. Strip away all of your reddit brained pseudo-intellectual buzzword bullshit and you’re just a child throwing a tantrum because everyone here didn’t coddle you and call you the cleverest little guy.
You’re speaking as if the US started it. They did not. Russia literally invaded Ukraine in the false pretense that they are under the control of a Nazi regime. There is no Nazi regime, barely even a functioning contingent, and certainly nothing out of proportion with the rest of the world’s far right representation. If anything, this “proxy war” serves two purposes: 1. To field test new technology and 2. To undercut Russian propaganda. It’s apparent to anyone paying attention that Russia is the aggressor, they’ve vastly oversold their own capability, and their propaganda machine is flailing.
I’m not saying there are no issues within the US that urgently need resolved, but let’s be honest with ourselves – authoritarianism is authoritarianism no matter their lat/long or cultural/economic history, at home and abroad.
Edit: got caught up in my own argument and forgot to mention the obvious third reason: to help the sovereign nation of Ukraine defend itself from invasion.
It was a US orchestrated, planned and funded fascist coup.
They decided who would be in the (fascist) government, proven by the Nuland-Pyatt call.
Then those nazi scum terrorised the east and south for 8 years.
On the orders of UK US they broke the Minsk agreements, also proven and were going for a final push to ethnicly cleanse those who didn’t want to live under their regime.
But then ‘Russia started it’ LOL
The US started it.
Just like it did with Venezuela (failed so far), Myanmar (failed), Hong Kong (failed), Belarus (failed), Kazachstan (failed), Georgia (failed), Afghanistan (ruined and failed), Pakistan (to a lesser extend) and Syria (ruined but success).
Not to mention the “Arab Spring” (success), so Lybia among a host of MENA nations as well.
If the US hadn’t been involved with its subservient media, but some other country, like Russia, being involved then there would be questions like:
“How are these interim presidents like Ahmed al-Sharaa being selected?”
“So all of these interim presidents are all living in Russia and move from Russia into these countries as presidents?”
“And these people are recieving peace prizes in Russia/Belarus/North Korea?”
“So most of these people in Finland that’s in civil war right now don’t know at all who this interim president is, was never on the ballot, lived most of his life in Russia, but it’s okay, because this is an interim president, selected ‘internationally’?”
And headlines like:
“Russia installs another Puppet President into Finland under the pretense of democracy and soveirignity.”
“Russia calls to implement another slave shield zone above the nation of Greece, dubbed ‘no-fly zone’ in Russian language”
The only thing Ukraine stands out of the list is that Zelensky actually had been elected by the people and started out as an internal project for an oligarch, unlike CIA puppets Ahmed al-Sharaa, Hamid Karzai, Juan Guaidó, Reza Pahlavi, Fethullah Gülen, Aung San Suu Kyi, Joshua Wong, Ursula von der Leyen and others.
Zelensky however was about as thruthful in his campaign being an anti-war president as Trump has been and so his pro-Russian voters got completely betrayed, because he decided that he wanted to join the EU at all cost, thinking that this would turn his country into an economic miracle following the same economic trend as neighbouring Poland, repeating history with truisms as the economic landscape of the world has changed dramatically between the days Poland started to recieve EU subsidies and US investments and when Zelensky became president, with Russia in a much better position where it was back then and so Ukrainian people with growing economic ties to Russia only further entrenched themselves towards support for Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine because it violated the Minsk 3 agreements time and time again and because of mistrust of the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement that included military cooperation with NATO countries, which aroused suspicions of Ukraine trying to join NATO, an anti-Russia organisation, with Ukraine being an artificially created nation by the Soviet Union that contains mostly parts of Russia and Poland.
The US supporting Ukrainian nazis thing was just the most emotionally infuriating part, but not the most worrying as suppression of the Russian people in the Donbass was, who tried to vote themselves out of the country, but were violently suppressed.
The invasion was a warning to Ukraine that if it did not sign the agreement that it would refrain itself from joining NATO,
it could expect a devestating war, which it now does.
If anyone has footage of this by the way, please direct me to it.
I did not save the footage of people going to polling stations and being shot at by Ukrainian troops.
The footage I saw had loud sweeping music/commentary added to it,
which did a giant disservice in my opinion to spread the atrocity that happened that day.
You are portraying Russia, a global superpower, as the unilateral victim. I am saying there is more nuance, especially concerning superpowers. I don’t support usurpation or invasion by anyone. You can’t suppose that ideologically and economically opposed nations won’t both editorialize (which seems here to be your concern, editorializing). Yet here we are.
That’s right history starts on February 2022, nothing happened before then. 🤡
The US did start it, by constantly poking with threats and actions here and there. Like in 2014 when they overthrew the actual democratically elected Ukraine government for the crime of being “Too friendly with Russia” and then propped up the current Nazi regime that is completely russo-phobic.
They even went so far as to rename a city because it had a “Russian spelling”.
Right, because the US told Yanukovych to brutalize his people, and also told the people to revolt and the supreme court to remove him from office, so he could flee to Russia. Not saying the West didn’t see this as an opportunity to strengthen economic ties, but it was not a bear and stick moment. Why do you insist that only the West is at fault? Culpability is shared
Why would he tell people to “revolt” when he was the president of the country? That doesn’t even make sense. Who did he “brutalize,” specifically? It was the coup snipers who shot people in Maidan from rooftops. It was a false flag attack.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2023.2269685
I’m not going to get into a citation contest with you, that would be a train to nowhere. My final point still stands.
“I don’t have facts so I’m just going to stick to my unfunded opinion in line with what my western regime told me what happened.” That shit don’t work with ML people.
Always know what they’re talking about, and can back it up.
So basically admitting you’re full of shit
Just accepting you can’t reason with ideologues 👍
You cowardly worm. At least have dignity to admit you’re full of shit
Nah man not sticking around to be abused like that, buhbye
See, the mistake you made was assuming anyone here is capable of understanding how nuanced debate works. It’s all or nothing around here. And if you so much as merely imply that communism/russia/authoritarianism/china is flawed in any way-
You get your comment removed and face the possibility of having you yourself removed.
I’d strongly suggest you search elsewhere if you’re looking for an actual conversation on topics like this, because speaking southward in a northbound wind-tunnel won’t ever result in anyone getting the message.
We just refuse to dance to a bunch of removedlibs tune. Fuck off to Reddit and libjerk yourself to Hillary Clinton/AOC/Bernie/KKKamala Harris if you have a problem with that.
I’m honestly surprised they’re still up
It’s not a school night.
Nice “nuanced debate”
Oh make no mistake, I have no desire whatsoever to waste my time trying to illustrate the concept of nuance in a discussion here. Whether it be about politics or government operated socio-economic systems- I’ve been on lemmy long enough to see how you all operate here, and debate on these topics is an exercise is abject futility.
I’m simply here, for no other purpose than to warn a fellow user before they fall victim to the time-sink that is debating with pseudo-socialists and communists….
Nothing more.
Now, go ahead with your bait tactics. I love seeing what little tricks you all try to use to goad me into the argument you crave so dearly.
You cowardly little worm. You know you can’t actually defend your position so you’re going to proudly declare that you’re just inherently right and nuanced and just the smartest little boy, and therefor everyone who disagrees with you is just inherently wrong and stupid. Strip away all of your reddit brained pseudo-intellectual buzzword bullshit and you’re just a child throwing a tantrum because everyone here didn’t coddle you and call you the cleverest little guy.
Absolute. Coward.
It’s like I can predict the future! (Naaah. It’s just that you’re so darned predictable!)
Oh, to add:
Rule 1 says to be “civil and nice” but we both know that only pertains to people on the other side of your argument.
Why do losers insist on talking like knock off Joss Whedon characters?
Yeah, turns out you shouldn’t expect people to be civil and nice to you when you have been extremely uncivil and rude to them yourself, dumb-ass.
Touché