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crying in decentralization efforts
Hell, even worse, crying in the lost information. Discord is a black hole where community knowledge goes to die.
It’s the worst.
I hate it so much, even when I NEED to go there for help and support, I know I’m lonely the tenth person to ask the same question. I honestly don’t know why so many people love this way of support, just document it!
Also you need an account to even view it. And I’ve heard they’re really trigger-happy about banning the accounts or holding them hostage until you provide a phone number…
I’ve found that if it’s set up right, it works well for announcements and short discussions around that. But as far as support, it’s absolute trash. It’s nice for slightly quicker communication on updates than than updating a website, and I’ll see all the backlash from users saying “this update broke everything you idiots”, so I know to wait.
Why always discord… Why!!!
What’s the worst - Discord doesn’t seem to provide any particular convenience over Mumble for voice calls while playing games or anything else. Just being in one app in one place is its advantage.
It’s like Telegram, just better quality, worse optimization, more moderation.
Good, the world is in dire need of competition in this arena.
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Looks like a confused Swedish dude that when questioned about his use of English pronouns defaults to not wanting to get political. Is there more besides a misguided decision to avoid relevant political topics?
I think we should chastise people that insist on not getting political, but not necessarily boycott everything they do. Or at least we should apply the same moral demands to Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft or Google when choosing which browsers to support. Which of them is the least bad?
There is nothing political about acknowledging peoples’ existence.
Existence? Because somebody used a wrong pronoun?
You’re right, words are meaningless and language has no bearing on society at large. after all, fuiebt eidiowb rhe efifo quifopim.
The hyperbole here is insane. My trans friend’s Japanese parents are supportive of him, but they have some trouble with pronouns. If you’re not a native English speaker and learned the standard pronouns, then I think it’s just naturally too confusing. Pretty much all of them are translating in their minds in real-time.
They refused to use the right pronoun. One is a mistake. The other is a choice.
They refused to accept a PR from a random person with just one single word change for a string that only the developer himself is seeing.
I think the developer has all the rights not to accept such a PR which adds nothing to the program. And I think people that really care about gender inclusivity should stop focusing on this useless nitpicks, which makes inclusivity appear like made up by a bunch of trolls.
It’s pretty telling to focus on the dev’s right to reject inclusivity while simultaneously rejecting and deriding everyone else’s right to judge them for that.
And if it was such a useless change, why didn’t the dev reject it for that instead of saying it was “political”? He’s the one that declared the word itself, not the utility of the change, was the problem. Calling everyone else “trolls” for pointing that out is just disingenuous.
Language is extremely powerful. This is all part of the erasure (an integral part btw).
Hmm I don’t think you really understand what happened.
The developer wrote a comment (not visible to the end user) using the male form.
A random person opened a pull request without any useful changes, except for changing that comment from “he” to “their”.
The developer rejected that PR because it’s politically motivated and it doesn’t add anything else.
Right, except that’s not politically motivated, and is a useful change for people reading the code, both for women and non-binary people.
Calling pronouns “political” is the dogwhistle they always use
ugh transphobia rots people’s brains
it’s not too hard to just be a decent person ppl
I can’t see anything about this on DuckDuckGo. Do you have a link?
https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird
This was a little „write-up“ back when everything became more public.
I’m surprised this got any kind of attention.
Here’s the turn of events from my perspective:
- Someone submits a 1-line PR changing the gender used in a code comment
- PR rejected on the grounds that the change is “politically motivated”
- Submitter got mad, and proposed removing the rule against “politically motivated” changes, calling it “white supremacist,” which is closed
- Someone wrote a blog post about it
Here’s my analysis:
- Stupid change - don’t make PRs that simply correct an irrelevant typo in a comment somewhere; some people do this to put stuff on a resume (look at how much FOSS work I do!), and it just wastes everyone’s time
- Stupid response - it should’ve been rejected because it’s a useless change, not because it’s “politically motivated”
- Stupid proposal - do you really want to waste a bunch of time fighting over wording in a comment? Because that’s the kind of crap you get without a rule like this.
- This is all about an irrelevant change to a comment? Why is this getting so much attention?
“comments must be accurate,” is not a rule you should bend. Bending it even a little leads to last programming and shit code.
True, but that only applies if it’s misleading. For example:
// pythagoran theorem distance = abs(p2.x - p1.x) + abs(p2.y - p1.y);Fixing that makes sense because it’s wrong and misleading (it’s actually Manhattan distance), and a quick glace is insufficient to tell the difference.
But fixing a typo or something that wouldn’t be confusing is just noise and should only be fixed with other changes. For example, I intentionally misspelled Pythagorean in my comment above, fixing that to be the right spelling would be a useless change, even if the distance formula used the hypotenuse. It wouldn’t be an unreasonable policy to reject PRs that only fix spelling or similar to reduce noise for the maintainers.
Yep, I understand but disagree. Maybe it comes from working with so many ESL coders, but I’ll happily accept typo corrections because it’s not always obvious what words should be if you’re not steeped in the culture.
“We don’t accept ideologically motivated changes” = White supremacist language… Yeah, sounds about like what I expected…
Thank you for sharing.
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Someone else posted a writeup about it.
It wasn’t in documentation, but a code comment. No user would see this.
One part was a rejected change on the README, which was trying to remove this “white supremacist language”:
## On ideologically motivated changes
This is a purely technical project. As such, it is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics or religious beliefs. Any changes that appear ideologically motivated will be rejected.
Someone changing “he” to “they” (original PR that started all this) in a comment as their only change could absolutely be seen as “politically motivated.” My understanding is that if changing the comment was part of some larger useful change, it would be fine (as would using “she” or “they” in a new comment), but just changing the gender of a pronoun in a comment is a useless change.
If the comment said “she,” would someone have been motivated to make this change? Probably not. Should changing this from “she” to some other pronoun (he or they) also be rejected? Yes, on the same grounds as changing it from “he,” it’s not a useful change and just wastes everyone’s time. If you’re in the code already, then go ahead, correct silly language like this if you care to.
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Freakout? Didn’t he just reject?
“Don’t Be Evil” happily indexing while Bingcrosoft sleeps
DDG search is garbage, I’m sorry… Whenever I switch to a browser that defaults to it, I’m reminded why I always switch it back to Google (unfortunately). Even Yandex is better, and that’s prob Russian spyware.
I didn’t know anything about this, but it doesn’t sound as bad with context.
edit: Removed link to a site which shouldn’t be receiving more traffic. I should have vetted it more thoroughly.
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Lunduke is definitely right wing and has been for years
Lunduke used to be somewhat interesting, and I enjoyed his “Linux sucks” series, but he really has doubled down on political nonsense.
I don’t know. But rather than just accepting the assertion, I did a cursory search. This turned up and I perused it. I didn’t see anything damning and thought maybe somebody could clarify. I am absolutely not trying to defend anybody, but I didn’t spend much time on it. Sorry folks.
Maybe he is a bad guy. Truly, I didn’t know.
Lunduke is an alt-right shithead.
My mistake. I didn’t look far enough into it. But the accusation was made without context so I didn’t know. I’m not trying to defend him.
Stay vigilant. Content about “Political correctness gone mad!” is step one of the alt-right pipeline.
It also can be a reasonable take though, and you’ll need more context to distinguish it.
In this case, Lunduke has a history of injecting politics where it doesn’t belong, which is a shame because I used to watch some of his content (esp. his “Linux sucks” series). But now it’s filled with nonsense.
My point is, don’t write someone off because they don’t want politics or political correctness in their project. Write them off when they use that excuse to silence things they don’t like and allow things they do.
That blog post is pretty ridiculous, IMO.
You’ll see the alt-right do that a lot, for some reason.
There’s real criticism, but they always mix it in with some made-up complaints like the slavery thing, which is some of the most obvious sarcasm I have ever seen on the internet, but somehow taken literally by the author of the post.
IDK if he’s a transphobe or whatnot, but his reaction to the change in language was indicative of, at the very least—with the most charitable of interpretations—, a disregard for inclusive language and, more realistically, some philosophy that doesn’t allow for “others” to participate because the existence of those that aren’t male is “political,” somehow.
You might not see it, because you haven’t seen it enough times to recognize it, but it happens again and again and again… But it’s always quiet.
“Don’t make this political,” “ideology isn’t welcome,” stuff like that. Statements that sound reasonable, but are only wielded to quiet those aiming for inclusiveness and acceptance of marginalized people.
It might sound like a less-than-generous interpretation, a bit callous and over-zealous, but it’s just patterns. I hear wolf, I say wolf.
Also, I thought that article had a really funny passage:
One activist (“cafkafk”) seen below, within the GitHub repository for the developer being attacked, celebrating the fact that other activists – organized on “The Fediverse” – had arrived to harass the Ladybird developer.
This alone made me think that it might be satire, but I don’t think it is… The Fediverse, huh? OK.
I would’ve rejected the PR too, but not for violation of that rule, but because one-line changes that merely fix a comment waste everyone’s time reviewing it, and are often just to build someone’s resume. I’ve even seen some that remove trailing whitespace.
If you want to fix it alongside other changes, go for it (and the reviewer said as much on the PR). But if you’re only interested in sending in drive-by commits to build a resume or something and aren’t actually interested in helping, then it should be rejected as noise.
If there’s a broader pattern of this, maybe that’s cause for concern. But if it’s literally just this instance, I could see the dev being annoyed at drive-by PRs.
I would’ve rejected the PR too, but not for violation of that rule, but because one-line changes that merely fix a comment waste everyone’s time reviewing it, and are often just to build someone’s resume.
That’s exactly what I was talking about. You’re taking what they said reasonably, because you’re probably a reasonable person! However, look at what they’re actually saying. The issue wasn’t framed as being a “drive-by,” though later that’s what they claimed. It was about ideology. It was about politics. They didn’t pull up rules about one-line changes to justify not accepting them, they pulled up rules about talking politics.
The problem wasn’t that it was a meaningless PR, the problem was that it was a meaningful PR that they disagreed with.
And, quite frankly, disagreeing with that does make you an asshole, at the very least, and a transphobic misogynist, at worst. There were at least a few PRs open about similar issues, too.
Look, I’m not calling him a transphobe or a misogynist; I’m just saying this was an asshole thing to do, and it was done in an asshole way, and that allowing this sort of thing to exist, especially in FOSS, is not good. That’s all.
Check this out: https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird
To go along with the alt right stuff, one of their major donors is Shopify.
So what?
Shopify willingly hosted and sold Kanye’s swastika shirt.
Why is this relevant to this sponsorship and the development of the browser? I wouldn’t mind Kanye donating himself if that ensures that we get a great browser. Who cares where the money comes from?
Wow. So if Nazis contributed to a project you like that’d be ok cause that’s what I’m reading from your reply…
Yes. Support is unidirectional not bidirectional.
Holy shit… Dude you need to reevaluate your world view.
Nazis go to cinemas and pay tickets, supporting the cinema’s business. But that doesn’t mean the cinema endorces nazism. Your logic is simply flawed.
A good breakdown on their progress: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43200604
We definitely need more competition in the browser space, I just wish it wasn’t using such a permissive license as the BSD.
You’re free to fork and use a more restrictive license, that’s one of the cool things about BSD licenses. It’s not like it’s something dumb like the CDDL, which is incompatible with the GPL (and many other licenses) and the reason ZFS can’t be directly included in the kernel.
Politics aside, I’d be curious to see how far something like this can go. Can’t not think of Opera Software - even they were not successful while they were using their own proprietary tech.
I’ve been testing it out, it’s pretty fucking rad.
So keen for this.
The main issue I have right now: the jurisdiction of this is in the US, and to be honest, I don’t trust the US that much when it comes to privacy laws regarding the (near) future.
I’ll be great. The big question is how long it’s left until a stable release
Ladybird says 2026. Given the current state and progress, I believe it may be quite usable by then. I use it sometimes for basic surfing and leaving forum comments. It works surprisingly well often though it is still far from general use. I think the dev team tries to use it themselves for things like Discord and GutHub. They did a demo last month where it “almost” ran Gmail.
I am not sure that Servo has set a timeline. I expect it to take longer.
I love it when I see Ladybird come up! ESPECIALLY now with the ongoing enshittification of FF lmao
Ladybird is a brand-new browser & web engine.
Congratulations on completely misunderstanding the comic.
Ladybird is not a new standard. It is a new implementation of existing standards. Nobody has to change or adapt anything.
It still has some of the same problems as the comic, though not to the same extent, it doesn’t need to be a standard for the comic to make sense, it’s also about market share. Having yet another browser has the potential of diluting the market and making people just go for the default.
I might agree if it was another Chromium browser or something, but this uses its own rendering engine and thus directly opposes Google’s dominance on web standards. Currently, there are only 3 major rendering engines:
- Blink - Chromium browsers (Chrome, Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, etc)
- Gecko - Firefox browsers
- WebKit - Safari, GNOME Web (Epiphany), and Konqueror
Ladybird and Servo (Mozilla R&D project) are new ones, and Ladybird seems to have more traction.
Engine diversity is important. Browser diversity… a bit less so.
