Downvoted. Please post text in post next time, with a link to the tweet for fact checking.
And colonialism did not benefit Indigenous people.
“But we gave them technology!” No. You killed them and destroyed their culture. The few survivors learned your technology as a way to survive your reign, technology which you tried very hard to withhold from them as a means of dominating them. Indigenous people (and POC in general) were banned from attending university in the US and Canada until relatively recently for example. Stop acting like you gifted them technology out of the goodness of your heart.
And the second you repeat their claims, but with just a “no” in front of it, you have become part of their hate spreading machine.
When there’s an insane guy on the streetwalk preaching that the holocaust never happened, you do not debate him. You treat him as a psycho he is.
When there’s an insane group on the streetwalk preaching that the holocaust never happened, you do not debate them. You treat them as the psychos they are.
When you start debating, you are pretending that their argument has value, that it is worth being discussed.
The ability to be outright uninterested in debating and being properly outraged instead is an important one.
Conservatism in the US is just a white supremacy movement these days. People need to realize that.
I disagree, there are plenty of POC among conservatives. Some very vocal minorities within the larger conservative camp are essentially a white supremacy movement though.
What helps identify them to me is whether they’re more focused on social or fiscal issues. This doesn’t work for politicians since politicians rarely care about either, they care about whatever they think will get them the votes they want to get elected, but it works pretty well for average voters.
For example, if someone wants immigration control, figure out the root of it and attack that. If they think brown people are taking our jobs, show them that immigration is generally beneficial because it means companies can expand the “good” jobs if they have sufficient labor pool to fill the less desirable jobs (there are plenty of statistics to back this up). If they think women shouldn’t get abortions, show how long it takes women who have been attacked to report to the police (if they ever do). And so on. Take their concerns seriously and show them how an alternative perspective improves things without regressing on their concerns.
The same goes for people on the opposite end of the spectrum. Figure out what their concerns are and show how the policy you’d like to support doesn’t make this concerns worse, or how the policy could be amended to address their concerns.
Some people can’t be reasoned with because their root concern is unreasonable (e.g. block immigration because they hate foreigners), but that’s a very small subset of the population. Realize that most people have been lied to and aren’t basing their policy preferences on hate.
Does it really? This is largely a meme AFAIK, most conservatives don’t believe in that nonsense, at least not in the way the poster is making it out to be. Essentially, this is a strawman-type argument to get attention.
Instead of this, how about we discuss actual policy proposals and reveal any latent racism?
It absolutely does. Florida is currently implementing curriculum from the (non-educationally certified) PragerU YouTube channel that explicitly teaches exactly these 2 things. If we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it then those kids are going to grow up indoctrinated.
“X supports Y which has component Z” and “X is part of group A” does not mean “A supports Z” and it doesn’t necessarily mean “X supports Z.”
I understand attacking Ron DeSantis over the PragerU position, but even then, there’s still a lot of nuance being missed (i.e. does the proposed curriculum in question include that content, or are they selecting other parts of the content from PragerU?).
I’m all for bashing conservatives, especially DeSantis in particular, but this is so much of a stretch that it seems more like an ad hominem than an actual criticism.
Bro the “blacks benefitted from slavery” thing is literally being made into the new standard for teaching in Florida by the board of education, something that was made possible by Desantis’s stupid “stop woke act”, you know, actual policy and legislation. This clearly isn’t just a meme to conservatives, and it’s not a strawman if it’s based on real things people are saying and teaching and putting into law. Idk about the holocaust thing since I haven’t heard about whatever that’s referencing yet, but the “black people benefiting from slavery thing” is very much a real issue born from actual policies, and not just a meme.
Do you have a link to the proposed changes? I’d like something a bit less sensationalized than a SM post.
These aren’t proposed changes, these are already enacted changes. Do you have a preferred source? Nvm, I’ll just provide several for you to choose from.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/20/us/florida-black-history-education-standards-reaj/index.html
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article277539723.html
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/rcna95358
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna95418
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/20/florida-black-history-teaching-standards-00107067
That last one is a copy of the standards from the Florida department of education itself. You can check page 6 to verify it yourself.
Hope that provides enough info.
Thanks! Those articles were quite informative! I didn’t read all of them And it seems to me that it’s a bit of an overreaction, here are some relevant parts of various links you posted:
Politifact:
The controversial part is in this “benchmark clarification” about slave labor: “Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.”
The rest of the document includes specific standards about slavery, including the development of slavery and the conditions for Africans as they were brought to America. It also covers how slave codes resulted in enslaved people becoming property without rights, abolitionist movements, state and federal laws, revolts by slaves, and the Civil War.
CBS News:
“The intent of this particular benchmark clarification is to show that some slaves developed highly specialized trades from which they benefitted. This is factual and well documented,” said Dr. William Allen and Dr. Frances Presley Rice, members of the group, before listing examples like Crispus Attucks and Booker T. Washington. “Any attempt to reduce slaves to just victims of oppression fails to recognize their strength, courage and resiliency during a difficult time in American history. Florida students deserve to learn how slaves took advantage of whatever circumstances they were in to benefit themselves and the community of African descendants.”
And from the last link (the actual curriculum, on page 71:
SS.68.AA.2.4
Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.
So that’s like 65 pages of non-offensive content, and one sentence that people have issue with. And given the quotes above, I honestly don’t see a problem with it.
The curriculum makes it absolutely clear that slavery is completely unacceptable and really hurt entire groups of people. It goes through the terrible conditions Africans went through, and the unfair treatment leading up to and including emancipation. The curriculum in no way takes the tone of a slave owner apologist, it merely states that many former slaves were able to use skills they learned (by force) to make a life for themselves after achieving freedom. It’s not in any way implying that slavery was a good thing, but that some former slaves were able to use the skills they acquired to support themselves after gaining freedom.
It’s kind of like saying a soldier conscripted to fight in Vietnam who was injured due to fighting in the war was able to use skills after coming home to find gainful employment (e.g. maybe they use flight skills to become a pilot, or survival skills to teach survival classes). The conscription was still a terrible thing, but they were able to make something somewhat positive out of it.
At least that’s how I understand the curriculum and the commentary about it. If I’m missing something, please correct me.
You are focusing way to much on the fact that “oh well the rest isn’t too bad, it’s just one bad part.” and you don’t seem to understand the issues with the bad part.
It doesn’t matter if the rest is inoffensive. None of it was offensive before. You think they’re going to start with this one change? Do you really not see how this is just their foot in the door? They’re rubbing their hands together salivating over people like you because you’re the stepping stone they’re looking for to gain leverage for future changes. You’re the hot water they want to use to slowly boil all the frogs in the pot.
And the slaves DID NOT BENEFIT FROM SLAVERY. Even the implication is disgusting. I don’t understand how anyone could honestly believe that. Think about it, for one goddamn moment. They did not learn these skills BECAUSE of slavery. Did white people need to be slaves to learn the same skills? Obviously not. Imagine how many black people could have learned and applied these skills, like blacksmithing and so on, if they’d been given the freedom to CHOOSE to do so on their own terms for their OWN sake, not for the sake of the people with bloody whips in their hands. My god dude, actually think about what the fuck you’re saying.
You’re twisting it again. Nobody is arguing that slavery was a good thing for the slaves, the argument is that freed slaves were able to use the skills they gained to make a life for themselves. Given that there’s ~65 pages before this detailing the terrible conditions slaves lived in, it’s absolutely ridiculous to see this as anything other than a transition to reconstruction-era US.
The message kids should and will likely take from this isn’t that slavery was somehow good, but quite the opposite. It was a terrible atrocity, and the people enslaved were just like you and me. But these weren’t unskilled people, when freed, they were able to jump in and engage in the economy. The success here was limited, not because of their lack of skill, but because of intolerance.
And it’s not the final chapter in the discussion on slavery either, there are more references to it later, such as on pages 125-136, give or take. So the point of mentioning the skills slaves gained isn’t to somehow justify it, but to set the stage for future discussion on issues black people experienced afterward, and why the Civil Rights movement needed to happen.
I think it’s important to discuss as many aspects of an issue as possible. Just look at discussion of US foreign intervention in US schools, we almost never mention the negatives associated with it, and instead the US is painted as a savior in most cases, but we ignore things like crimes committed by US soldiers. Schools shouldn’t be a place to push an agenda, but to educate in a way that teaches kids to see that each issue has multiple sides.
If you genuinely don’t see the issue with what’s happening here then I’m not going to waste any more energy arguing with you. What they’re doing here is dangerous, even if you’re too blind to see it.
