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Speaking at a news conference at the United Nations on Saturday, the minister called a 10-point peace blueprint promoted by Kyiv “completely not feasible”.
Kyiv’s plan:
Energy security, with a focus on price restrictions on Russian energy resources
Restoring Ukraine’s territorial integrity and Russia reaffirming it according to the UN Charter
Withdrawal of Russian troops and the cessation of hostilities, the restoration of Ukraine’s state borders with Russia
Justice, including the establishment of a special tribunal to prosecute Russian war crimes
building security architecture in the Euro-Atlantic space, including guarantees for Ukraine.
What leverage does Ukraine think they have to institute such a blatantly pro-Ukraine peace resolution? Based on Ukraine’s proposed plan, you’d think they were at the sea of Azov and halfway to Moscow, rather than stuck in a few salients along the same frontline they were at a year ago.
Restoring Ukraine’s territorial integrity and Russia reaffirming it according to the UN Charter
That includes Crimea, apparently. Good luck with that.
The fact that Putin invaded Ukraine. Putin won’t leave, so Ukraine has to make them. This all fucking started when pussy Putin decided to be a little bitch. This whole war can end right now if Putin just fucks off and goes the fuck home.
So… What leverage does Ukraine have to make that happen?
The destruction of the Russian army and economy.
Seems like the opposite is happening
- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-08/russia-sees-resilient-economy-despite-war-sanctions
- https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/23/germany-went-from-envy-of-the-world-to-the-worst-performing-major-developed-economy-what-h
- https://think.ing.com/snaps/eurozone-pmi-drops-again-in-june-confirming-weakness-in-economy/
- https://breakingdefense.com/2023/07/us-nato-weapons-stockpile-dangerously-low-usaf-general/
- https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/09/21/western-help-for-ukraine-is-likely-to-diminish-next-year
Oh hey, remind us what this “peace plan” is exactly?
Caps on Russian oil price, restoration of original Ukraine borders, prosecution of Russian “war criminals”
It’s what you’d expect from a country that’s completely winning the war and not stuck in a stalemate while losing support
Yeah, it’s what you’d expect from a country that’s winning the war, and Ukraine is not winning the war while rapidly losing support as pretty much all western media admits now. A few recent examples for you:
- https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/08/the-hard-reality-ukraines-last-gasp-offensive-has-failed/
- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/23/western-criticism-blame-ukraine-failing-counter-offensive/
- https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-poland-central-europe-eastern-kyiv-baltics-zelenskyy-war-invasion/
- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/ukraine-zelenskiy-under-pressure-as-allies-priorities-shift
- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-09-24/ukraine-offensive-against-russia-is-too-slow-for-us-uk-and-eu
I was pointing out this obvious reality to some people on reddit a few weeks ago and I was called names. Here is how I came on this conclusion: Ukrainians were saying that whoever wins the battle of Bakhmut, will win the war. Then they proceeded to lose said battle and they were announcing to the enemy “Here we go, were coming, we are going to attack at this region anytime soon, please give weapons!” And everyone was like, “How dare you say that they are losing”. It’s like as if everyone forgot how to think for their own
It’s been pretty surreal to watch this unfold over the past year and a half. Every single prediction the west made about the direction of the war was proven to be completely wrong. Russian economy did not collapse, Russian military isn’t falling apart, Russia isn’t running out of weapons. Western weapons aren’t game changers, stingers, HIMARS, tanks, and missiles that the west sent were all proven to be useless in changing the direction of the war.
Yet, as we see in this thread, plenty of people in the west are refusing to do any reflection on the fact that the narrative we’re being sold is demonstrably false. They just latch on to whatever new hopium story western media puts out and just keep doubling down.
I understand that in every war there is propaganda on both sides in order to keep the morale high for the ones fighting. However there seems to be the case that the ones that make policy and push the propaganda fall victims of it and are being deluded into bad strategic decisions.
Right, we have a very narrow window of accepted viewpoints right now, and anybody who voices points that that don’t fit with the narrative ends up being sidelined. This creates an echo chamber where people just repeat the same talking points to each other even if they don’t agree with them because saying anything contrary would be career ending. A great example of this is how people like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer are now only found on substack and random youtube channels. It’s impossible to make sound decisions without honest debate and without accepting facts as they actually are as opposed to as you want them to be.
It’s deeply ironic that the west prides itself on diversity of opinions that are considered. This is supposed to be one of the core strengths of the western system compared to “authoritarian” regimes like China. The reality turns out to be quite different.
I just heard Tilly on the talking heads say that if Ukraine doesn’t prevail then there will be direct conflict between USA and Russia.
These are the people running the largest government/military in the world and I’m pretty damn sure all those Ukraine flags would disappear from peoples mailboxes when the bombs start falling in their back yards and their grandchildren are sent to die for a war no one can explain why we are in.
These people are dangerously unhinged and they’ve brought us to the brink of a nuclear holocaust. The fact that so many people in the west continue to cheer this on is frankly disturbing.
is it really a stalemate though? Russia is just letting Ukraine destroy itself basically…
Caps on Russian oil price
Remember when people still believed this would work? lol
Honestly It’s funny when you mention to libs that Ukraine itself has made law which forbids itself from negotiating with Russia. But russia is the unreasonable one?
And the goal of regime change in russia is particularly funny, like not even fully leaving ukraine are they satisfied with this. So the idea that peace can be obtained is for russia to leave, yet the ukranians themselves don’t even want this. Delusional people who are miserably failing this war.
(P.S. For you chuds and libs who are banned from lemmygrad, I cannot see your message, Real shame, and I cannot be bothered logging on to your alt-right platforms to engage with these illuminating comments).
Basically unconditional surrender of Russia.
I wonder what is the motive behind first refusing to sign Minsk agreements, seconded by last year asking for a literal World War III, followed by making any agreements with Russia illegal, and now suddenly showing a golden change of heart by trying to cease war when Ukraine has admitted they cannot recruit more troops and all of NATO’s wunderwaffen has failed comically.
Could it be… that this is an admission of complete and utter defeat with no way back for Ukraine? Could it be that Zelensky fears his own life, for now he will be assassinated in any NATO country for all the debt accumulated as aid? Could it be that he has become an enemy of NATO countries’ citizens who hate him for inflation, Ukrainian citizens, Russia and most of Russia’s allies too?
You have smelled your own farts for way too long.
