After being forced to standardise to usb c and be responsible for some of the e-waste it produces, apple has finally relented.
They fought tooth and nail against the EU regulations to force charging standards. I don’t care if they up sell cables to some people; most people will reuse what they have and thats the whole point of the regulations.
Regulation works.
They transitioned most of their devices to usb save the iPhone before the EU legislation went into effect.
Apple caught shit for going USB-C only on their laptops years ago.
Exactly, and it’s still kind of annoying years later on my work laptop (2019 Macbook Pro). I got a USB hub and now I get all those other ports, but that wouldn’t have been necessary if they just gave me an HDMI and USB-A port. The newer M-series Macbook Pros went back to having HDMI, which is really nice.
I wish everything I had was the same port, but I’m not going to go out and repurchase everything to standardize on one plug.
HDMI is a dogshit standard and everyone should’ve moved over to DisplayPort or Thunderbolt over the USB-C form factor.
Nah, it’s totally fine, and it’s ubiquitous. Ideally, I get both, so if I’m connecting to a TV or something, I can use HDMI, and if I’m connecting to a monitor, I can use DP.
Are people connecting their laptops to TVs frequently enough that this should be built into every single unit shipped? I can’t imagine the percentage of users who actually use their HDMI ports is very high.
Yes? Someone in my group connects to our work TV pretty much every day for our morning meeting, and I connect to a monitor at home and at work multiple times every day. Yeah, I guess you could ensure that every TV supports streaming and have a USB-C hub at every desk, but that sounds odd compared to just adding an HDMI port or something.
You use HDMI for all those use cases? Seems like Thunderbolt is a much better dock for workstations, and DisplayPort is generally better for computer monitors and the resolution/refresh rates useful for that kind of work. The broad support of cables and HDMI displays is for HDMI 2.0, which caps at 4k60. By the time HDMI 2.1 hit the market, Thunderbolt and DisplayPort Alt mode had been out for a few years, so it would’ve made more sense to just upgrade to Thunderbolt rather than getting an all new HDMI lineup.
Definitely.
People who never connect their laptop to a second screen are in the minority.
I never encountered one that has never done so, including Mac users.
To a second screen, sure. But I’m saying that DisplayPort and Thunderbolt are so much better, are generally supported by more computer monitors (but probably fewer TVs). I’d be surprised that there are a lot of people using HDMI in particular.
Displayport have bad connectors compared to HDMI. They break so regularly, I switched back to HDMI after every single one of those cables died.
They switched back to the much more durable MagSafe (3?) connector. I have 3 MagSafe MacBooks and one usc-c model. The only one I have issues not charging is the USB-C one, and it’s the newest by 2 years.
Not if
whenthey add a chip in the official Apple cable that the iPhone/iPad/iwhatever checks for, and refuses to properly charge or transfer data without it. At this point, a generic USBC will only work for a short time, before the device rejects it, forcing you to bin it and buy a new one, which negates the benefits of the regulation. Regulations do work, but they have to be thorough, and this one isn’t covering all the corners.Edit: changes when to if. It was causing confusion as to what I meant.
I too like to get mad at made up scenarios
If only.
Now, I don’t know if it’s in USBC cables, but it was in their lightning cables.
Edit: apple isn’t hiding this program, either. Nor should they. It has merit. But it can be abused, as it was with certified lighting cables.
Edit: also, I think it’s funny that you assumed I was angry/mad about this hahahahaha I’m really not. I no longer buy apple, so it really doesn’t affect me. And if I did buy apple, I don’t think I would care that much, as when I did buy apple, I bought certified add-ons. I was simply pointing out the gap in the passed regulation. It seems that you’re more upset about this than I am. Sorry my comment affected you this way–it was not my intention.
Now, I don’t know if it’s in USBC cables
It’s not. Apple specifically follows the USB-PD standard, and went a long way in getting all the other competing standards (Qualcomm’s Quick Charge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge) to become compatible with USB-PD. Now, pretty much every USB-C to USB-C cable supports USB-PD.
Also a shout out to Google Engineer Benson Leung who went on a spree of testing cables and wall adapters for compliance with standards after a charger set his tablet on fire. The work he did between 2016-2018 went a long way in getting bad cables taken off the market.
Is this true?
No, they made it up. There’s nothing special about the USB C port on any Apple products.
Nope
Not sure about USBC, but it was in their lightning cables.
It’s not farfetched that they would also add it to their “certified USBC”.
Edit: apple isn’t hiding this program, either. Nor should they. It has merit. But it can be abused, as it was with certified lighting cables.
It’s fine if they reduce the price accordingly.
If it’s still the same price after they take the cable out, it was never about reducing waste to begin with.
Knowing Apple, that wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, which is why I never have and never will own any of their products.
Adjusted for inflation, last years 15 was $827.
The base 16 is $800 and a separate USB C cable from Apple is about $20 for 1m and $30 for 2m.
So, if you buy a phone and cable, you’re spending about as much as you did last year, adjusting for inflation.
I don’t know why I just wasted all that time calculating that. I need to get a life.
But here’s the question: does it cost Apple $20 to make a cable? I seriously doubt it. It probably costs them closer to 20 cents per cable. So in reality, they now make approximately $20 more from every sale than they did before.
Sure, not everyone is buying a cable with every phone. But cables get lost, they wear out, they get stolen by your kids to charge their iPhones because they broke theirs, they get chewed up by pets, etc.
And you can bet your ass that, just like any other high-margin item, the people in the Apple store are gonna be incentivized like hell to get every customer to buy a cable with their phone whether they really need it or not:
Do you have a charging cable?
Is it an Apple cable?
Are you sure you have one that’s USB-C and supports USB Power Delivery?
And it’s not worn out?
You say your dog chewed on it a little but it’s mostly intact and still works?
Well, I’d recommend getting a new one anyway.
Yeah you can get your own if you want but it’s best if you get an Apple cable.
OK great, that comes out to $820 total. And do you want to insure your phone for $5 a month?
How do they make $20 more if the price is reduced by $27 from last year and the cable taken out? At most they make the $3 more if people buy the 2m cable. For the 1m cable they make less than last year.
The phone plus cable last year adjusted to inflation is $827 and this year it’s $820. The cost of the cable for Apple is not in play here.
The point is kind of moot because the phone definitely comes with the cable: https://www.apple.com/iphone-16/specs/
The article is actually about the new AirPods. I was going entirely off the information in the comment I was replying to.
The thing is, the iPhone 14, 15 and 16 all have the same launch price: $799 US
Adjusted for inflation, the 14 and 15 may have cost more, but Apple is almost certainly making that money back somewhere else. Like, say, making people pay for accessories that used to be included?
And at the end of the day, the prices consumers pay for end products don’t follow the exact same curve as the prices megacorporations pay for materials and labor. We’ve seen plenty of evidence that the current inflation is almost entirely driven by companies price gouging consumers. So it’s not really reasonable to assume that Apple’s costs have gone up 1:1 with consumer prices anyway.
We’ve seen plenty of evidence that the current inflation is almost entirely driven by companies price gouging consumers.
And actually, the fact that the price hasn’t increased is pretty obvious evidence of this.
Do you think, for one second, Apple would accept any appreciable hit to its profit margin if their costs had inflated 1:1 with consumer prices? Especially when they have a perfect excuse to blame a price increase on?
The phone may cost them a little more to make than last year, but I doubt it’s that much.
There’s tons of elasticity built into the pricing already so that carriers can offer discounts.
The removed the cable from the box of the AirPods 4, not iPhone.
well…by selling both the cable and wall adapter as separate items it doubles the packaging by necessity so it was still never about reducing waste
which is why I never have and never will own any of their products.
✊👍
I’m not going to defend Apple’s profit maximization strategy here, but I disagree. Most people won’t end up buying a cable and adaptare because they already have one, and in contrast to those pieces made of plastic and metal, the packaging is mostly made of paper. I’m pretty confident that the reduction in plastic and metal makes up for the extra packaging that’s produced for the minority that does buy a cable and/or adapter.
Seriously, since Apple stopped including a wall brick I have not had a single-port power adapter in my household. All I have now are a few power adapters with multiple USB A and C outputs so I can charge whatever is needed.
I agreed when they removed the brick. Everyone was saying it was horrible and it wasn’t actually about reducing waste but, nobody needs a new brick. If you reeeaaally need one, it’s really not going to break the bank to buy one, and it does massively reduce waste to not include one with every single new phone. I don’t see why people support wasting all these resources that 95% of the time is just going to be e-waste.
I don’t care if they keep the extra couple cents they saved on not giving the cable. I fucking hate getting extra e-junk with my electronics. I hate getting new cables just like I fucking hated getting shitty headsets with pre-smart phones. Nobody used them regardless. For all I care all battery-powered electronics, including laptops, could very well come without chargers and standardised cables, just with large warning on the box (like the one on cigarette packs). That was the fucking point of this EU regulation, to reduce e-junk
The worst to me is everyone now including a shitty bag to put the product in. Like it MAYBE makes sense to include a case for travel headphones or something but no I do not need you to include something for me to put the external SSD drive in.
My Nintendo 3ds came without a charger nor cable, and it blew my mind at that time 😆 but to be fair, the 3ds does not exactly have a standard port, even if it is designed to charge using 5v 500mA.
I ended up buying a third party 3ds to USB-A cable…
I honestly can’t be mad at this point because what they SHOULD do is sell cables in bulk packaging to the Apple store, and then when they sell a phone they say “Do you need a USB cable? Free with the phone.” If they say “No we’re okay I’ve got hundreds of them by now” no problem, if they say “Yeah in fact can I get two?” Sure. Same with chargers. Of course this is Apple we’re talking about, so they’re probably $69.99 each.
There is a good Adam Savage video on yt about the engineering of the thunderbolt or whatever cables.
They still should be shipped in bulk to the store but it makes more sense why they wouldn’t be given away free
iPhones don’t come with those expensive high-bandwidth cables, they come with charging cables that only do USB 2.0
I’ve had one apart and to be fair they are not carelessly made. They’re jacketed in soft silicone under the braid and have thicker than average stranded conductors. You can totally use whatever cables you want, but theirs are built a little better than you’d think and they just feel nice.
Maybe this is a tactile/autism thing for me?
I could understand if you were buying a pay-as-you-go phone on the cheap… but this is an iPhone you’re talking about. What’s the minimum, $799? I think they can afford to toss a cable your way if you need one.
As long as a standard “unblessed” usb-c cable will work fully with the phone it’s non-issue.
I don’t get why even use their “blessed” hardware.
When I was at school, a few things made me want it:
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Apple was still kinda fine back then, playing nice with FOSS community;
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I had good memories from using QuickTime under Windows 2000;
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I’ve been Jobswashed by a few books for kids saying how innovative he was;
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I had a PSP, it was really cool to use for listening to music, playing games, reading books in the Web (over wi-fi) and even Skype, and I thought iPhones seem kinda similar;
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I was possessed by imitated (was bored, wanted to feel something real and heroic) romantic feelings and real (bright hair, greenish-gray eyes, warm smile, subtle voice, and at that moment she seemed intelligent and nice ; turned out not as honest though) sexual desire of one girl who had an iPhone, a perfect product placement, one can say;
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Apple’s UIs back then seemed very usable, only later I actually tried them and realized that even Windows makes me less furious;
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It still wasn’t today’s Apple, they seemed trustworthy.
None of this applies today.
One exception nowadays: Business notebooks - and that’s only because the rest of the notebook market went to shit. If you want a somewhat compact notebook with more than 64GB of RAM, decent CPU performance and good battery life Apple currently is the only one offering something.
A lot of people say that you can get X laptop with similar specs for $600 or whatever. But they usually have shit screens or are made from cheap plastic.
I still think Apple is a bit expensive, but a comparable windows laptop is not too much cheaper in most cases.
Screen is another thing - but I can live with that, mostly - it’s a bit hard to find x86 notebooks with decent resolution (not talking retina style, just better than “1080p on a 14 inch display”). And while the screen itself is nice on the apples I’d prefer a lower resolution one if I can get a matte screen instead.
But fact is that nobody wants to sell you a proper x86 notebook. It’s almost impossible to find something with more than 32GB of RAM, and while there are a few with more than 64GB they’re all xeon based monsters larger than 16", as far as I can tell can’t really be ordered, and have a price tag equal or larger to a full spec 14" mac book pro. And obviously you can’t really think about battery life with intels space heaters.
It’s especially sad as current mobile Ryzen CPUs could very well compete with Apples ARM CPUs - the one thing Apple is better at is the absolute low power state, as soon as it has too actually do something the power (and TDP) curve is very close to mobile Ryzen. But pretty much every manufacturer fucks up the thermal design, or gimps it in other ways.
Just curious about what you do that needs 64gb ram?
Not the person you responded to, but my m1 max macbook pro is used to dry run changes to my kubernetes cluster by running 4 virtual machines and networking them. My previous pc could pull it off fine, but my macbook can run a virtual cluster for hours on battery.
Because of the unified memory, you can use all of your ram as video ram for the purposes of running a massive LLM if you want local AI. there’s a plugin I run for VScode that emulates github copilot but runs entirely on device and offline.
Apple’s ARM implementation is really nice for getting a lot of specific work done. Mine spends most workdays docked and being used as my primary workstation.
Lots of chrome, 1 VM with 8 gigs of ram. I was using > 28 gigs of ram on my old laptop so when I got my new one I made sure to get 64.
Yeah it’s the package. The semi broken entryspec mbp from 2015 I got to repair and keep has a mousepad that is at least on par with my current 2 yo high tier thinkpad. Now take a laptop from that era and the difference becomes more noticeable.
It’s just hard to trust them. So - buying an Apple laptop to install Linux there? Doesn’t seem to make much sense, though Linus Torvalds seems to be of a different opinion.
Because you’re getting a product that you know isn’t a cheap knockoff that will burn your house down, and you know it will charge your phone at the fastest speed it’s capable of.
You can of course get the same experience buying third party, but then you have to spend time doing research on which one to buy for your device, and the reputable third party brands can cost just as much as the Apple ones anyway.
and you know it will charge your phone at the fastest speed it’s capable of
Are you really advocating for buying an Apple-branded USB-C cable?
Yeah, why not? A quick look at Best Buy and I can see that the Apple USB-C cable is $15.99 and the cheapest reputable third party USB-charger is $13.99. You save a whopping $2.
So if you’re a deal-oriented shopper you’re probably not even going to buy from a reputable third party, you’ll probably go with the $6 one from the gas station of dubious quality. And you’ll probably be fine. Or maybe after 3 months it causes a short and burns your house down. Best $10 you ever saved.
Or you can take literally all of the guesswork out of it and just go with whatever manufacturers cable, spend the extra $10 on a cable that will last you years. The point isn’t buying something Apple branded, they don’t even brand it physically. The point is to just buy something guaranteed to work.
OK, where I live the price difference is not the same.
If you can get a much better deal on a Belkin or Anker cable or anything you know is a decent brand then I’d say go for it. You don’t NEED an Apple cable. It’s just a fool proof way to get a cable that you know will work well.
Well, thx, but I already have a couple of noname Chinese cables with braided cover (to avoid breaking) which seem to be as good as anything else I’ve touched, and were kinda cheap.
No strategy was involved in buying them, though, so I’ll remember you advice.
I can get a Anker 2 pack 6 feet USB-C cable for $11 lol. Why in Christ’s name should I buy an Apple-branded cable?
But then again, I don’t have anything from Apple, so moot point I guess
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Surely. /s
fear not you can buy an apple magic connector for just $60
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Next step: Apple removes hardware from box and ships aspiration only.
They have a concept of hardware
With theoretically chamfered edges.
Courage! Think(ing) Different!
I don’t know why but that sounds like something Jony Ive would come up with
Now it’s just a fuck you at this point
I dunno, I have so many USB c chargers and cables around that I bin them every time a device comes with another cable.
Agreed, but Apple removes things from the box, and the price stays the same…
And being good for environment goes it the window when they are packaged, shipped separately instead now
I honestly still hardly have any (spare) USB-C cables, and while I’d never pay for one I always do find the official Apple ones quite reliable.
I don’t know, mine keep breaking every few years around the device. I think it’s because I sometimes grab the phone without realizing I was charging it
At least keep a box of cables and donate it to an electronics recycling or a electronics upcycling store (ReUse, NextStep).
For me this would mostly be a non-issue. I’ve got enough extra USB-C cables that I don’t even unwrap the ones Apple has been shipping. Not to mention that I’m pretty used to charging my AirPods via MagSafe these days anyway.
If I send you an address can you ship some extras, mine seem to die or you get ones that are only 4inches long with something. Throw in that now many devices only have USB C on both ends so your last phone that sold with a USB A to USB C cord, that no longer plugs into new devices, I am always at a shortage.
The 4 inch ones are awesome! I have a whole collection of different 4 inch cables for when I travel, and for when I take my laptop to the cafe. They’re also great for microcontrollers, like the mouse jiggler I made from a pico 2040.
I’m glad someone has found their use, hanging devices off outlets never seems safe to me, or the device just falls as you eventually stretch out the charging ports.
Wish I had a collection of various colored chargers now. You may have inspired me to figure out a way to color code charging devices now.
I just keep it simple. When I travel, I bring my power bank and a tiny cable to charge my phone. When I get to my destination, I recharge my power bank with a longer cable. At each place around my house where I’d want to charge something (desk, bed, etc), I keep a charger nearby, either already plugged in or neatly stored near the outlet.
I never need to worry about where a cable is, because I always have one handy, and it’s just the right size.
If I knew you locally, I’d be open to giving it away. But with the cost of shipping even light usb cables, I think buying a UGREEN cable from Amazon might cost about the same.
Next up: you have to buy the box first, which is empty. Then you can buy the phone. No box? No phone.
And then you’ll buy the phone but the screen is sold separately.
WiFi connection? Monthly subscription.
Ooh I can’t wait until they pay wall my phone.
“Charging fee”
No, that would make it too easy to do third-party screen repairs. Apple wouldn’t allow that…
Why? You just have to prove you bought a phone and posted a photo/video on a right leaning social media and you get the right to have a screen on your phone.
Now, Apple might argue that they’re being environmentally conscious by reducing packaging waste. That’s a fair point,
It isn’t… That’s like not flushing the toilet in a public bathroom to “save water”
Flushing two toilets because there is all the packaging and shipping for the separate apple branded cables.
Why even have a box at this point? Just put the phone in the mail by itself, it’s durable right?
They should remove the USB-C ports, so you have to send it back to Apple for charging
Soon as we can figure out micro nuclear reactors it may actually work that way!
Beta-voltaic batteries are already a thing.
Huh, you’re right. I didn’t know about that. From Wikipedia:
The Chinese startup claims to have the miniature device in the pilot testing stage. Unveiled in January 2024, it is allegedly generating 100 microwatts of power and a voltage of 3V and has a lifetime of 50 years without any need for charging or maintenance.
Wonder if it microwaves your balls when it’s in your pocket too.
Either way we can dream of a future where we never have to plug in to charge again.
It’s old tech actually. They use it in pacemakers because it’s too difficult to replace or recharge the batteries. I guess you could do wireless charging now, but would you feel much safer with a lithium battery inside of you without a good cooling system? The body’s internal temperature is surprisingly warm when you start doing the engineering.
But what about … new users entering the Apple ecosystem?
What ecosystem do they think people are coming from where they didn’t already have a USB C cable or wireless charger?
EDIT: This refers only to the new Airpods, not to iPhones. iPhones still come with a charging cable.
First phone.
This is about Airpods. The phone still includes the cable.
Then just buy a cable.
Most phones shipped with USB a to USB c, that is not supported by many new devices. You need a USB c to USB C. If I pay over $800 dollars for something, I really shouldn’t be wondering if I can properly get it to charge.
Also, at what speed is it going to charge? If it charges slower with your old charger that you got from your last phone… Then you should supply the one that provides the speed I paid $800 dollars for.
This was why even Microsoft ships a new Xbox with a Controller, even though you can use your old controller with it.
Edit: That said, there has to be cut offs somewhere about features not being supplied, it’s not cut and dry
This is for the cheaper AirPods and the iPhone. Unlikely that they will not ship a cable with a phone. The article is just clickbait to make it seem like it’s for all the devices.
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And USB-C cables aren’t universal, I imagine a bunch of the cables you have can’t handle the higher voltage charging Macbooks have. But if your cable is capable of a higher standard, it’ll work fine with anything below it (e.g. I use my Macbook Pro charger to charge my Android phone, keyboard, and mouse all the time).
This isn’t relevant to people purchasing iPhones, as those come with a cable. This is only relevant to people purchasing the newest Airpods.
How about current IPhone users who have nothing but lightning cables and decide to upgrade to the new USB-C model?
Anyone buying a new iPhone still gets a USB C cable. This only applies to Airpods.
Oh no. Buy one then and be done with it. Oops.
Final step would be to remove the phone from the box. They would do world a favor.
I was just thinking either box or the phone has to go next.
It would probably be an important step, considering the article is about AirPod 4 boxes.
Any moment now…
Price wouldn’t change.
Yet more proof that Apple has ceased to be an innovator that adds features to phones and now takes things away and leaves it to fans to make up justifications for it.
They’re still innovating, especially when it comes to shareholder profits
Removing things is also innovation
Or do you still miss the VGA connector? A floppy disk drive? DVD drive in a laptop?
Those were replaced with better tech that did the exact same thing. VGA - DVI - HDMI - Display Port.
I don’t know about you, but I still have one DVD hooked up. Because I have the option to. Not because the motherboard maker took away all the SATA ports and told me I had to buy a special proprietary dongle or plug to fit the replacement.
Multiple people were really angry when VGA ports disappeared, the amount of shitty corporate projectors with only VGA connectors was staggering and we had to resort to using adapters (“dongles”) for a long time until all of them were replaced with HDMI capable ones
I still use most of these regularly, because I don’t waste money on anti-green Apple products.
Is using a 30 year old VGA monitor “green”?
