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- cross-posted to:
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Have you ever heard of the term federation-washing?
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People didn’t go to Bluesky because of an informed choice based on features or security. People went to Bluesky because that’s where everyone they want to follow went.
Yup, the network effect is real.
But Bluesky does have a lot better features when it comes to actually effectively using the platform. Getting set up on Bluesky is orders of magnitude easier than Mastodon, and I do think that’s a big part of why it’s become the preferred destination recently. Mastodon had a real shot early on but didn’t make it easy enough for people.
You can convenience or security, never both. Unfortunately bluesky’s compromises towards convenience hurt it’s security measures against enshittification
I know you’ll get blowback for this, eye rolls and such about how it’s not that hard, but I’ve been building social software for ordinary humans for almost 25 years and you are quite correct. Honestly the Mastodon PR itself was too complex. Anytime you heard about it, you heard not about what a hot social destination it is, but how cool its distributed technology model is and that shit just flies over most peoples heads and actually scares them into think it will be complex and hard. Then you prompt them to choose an instance and it’s just game over. Ordinary users have the attention span of a fruit fly.
You’re 100% right. I’m a technical person and until I started diving deep into my journey to manage my privacy better, I didn’t understand the appeal. NOW I do but to others points, when I first started looking to just leave Twitter, the people I followed were on Bluesky. I can’t find many people on mastodon.
I’m probably an idiot, but my experience was exactly the opposite. I don’t really feel like following specific users (at least for now), I just want to follow hashtags. Super easy to do on Mastodon, but I couldn’t figure it out on Bluesky.
I never used Twitter, and am not particularly excited about the general format, so I’m probably not the target user, but I check Mastodon occasionally, and gave up on Bluesky after like 2 days.
On Bluesky you follow starter packs which are collections of users which go to your main feed. https://blueskydirectory.com/starter-packs/all
Or you follow feeds which are set up by users to track certain topics. These can be very highly customized follows of people, hashtags, keywords, crowd tagged topics, including blocks of certain stuff. These are like subreddits or Lemmy communities. https://blueskydirectory.com/feeds/all
Yeah, I saw those and appreciate the idea, but I didn’t like them, at least not yet. I just want to follow a few cat related tags, maybe some FOSS stuff, and some tags relevant to my local area. I just clicked through a few feeds related to each of those, but didn’t like any of the ones that came up. Each feed contains posts that seem totally irrelevant and I don’t understand why they’re included or how to tweak my feed to remove them.
For me the feeds solve a lot of problems with straight hashtags, like getting stuff that’s the wrong language, or bot spam. But I guess if you are just going for visual stuff that stuff may be easier to tolerate.
If you don’t like the feeds that are out there already, you can build your own feed. https://www.southernfriedscience.com/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-to-making-custom-feeds-on-bluesky/
Hell I wouldn’t even say that… they don’t understand it, they don’t care to understand it, they don’t know or care what federated means. They went there because, it’s not currently nazified twitter.
I get that it’s “technically” federated… but practically it’s for all practical purposes just a proprietary program, run by a group that isn’t currently horrific. Unfortunately everything I see in it says, it’s every bit as vulnerable, and it can be good for as long as the owners care about not becoming a nazi propoganda machine. Actual recourse from it going evil… is non existant.
Bluesky isn’t Twitter. That’s all that mattered to most people. A few influential people went there first and the network effect kicked in.
Come join Mastodon where the skies are bluer and the grass is greener.
I had a nice little profile on there until about a month ago. I didn’t delete when I saw AI spammers join. And I kept my profile even when the mods were starting to become reddit-ish. What sent me over the edge was when they announced a partnership with an AI company who said they were “just there to beef up security”. Yeah, no, not for me. Super sad, too, because Bluesky is a good idea, but I’m sticking with the fediverse.
it’s not yet federated properly, or would not be completely, but it’s still a good player in the game for now. I’ll advocate against it if shareholders start shenanigans.
I get the mentality, but that’s the problem with enshitification. It always starts good, but once all the twitter traffic moves over, and the world becomes dependent on BlueSky the way it still is for Twitter, what do they become next?
It would be better to push people away from the closed platform and towards the actual open platform.
Edit: maybe BlueSky is open source. In such case, if they start fucking around, maybe it would be simple to fork this source code and form your own community. I think until other instances gain tractions, it is hard to consider BlueSky comparable to mastadon.
if shareholders start shenanigans.
That happens only when user count and platform lock in are past the point of no return. This sentence is the essence of why platforms have been allowed to do this again and again.
Its already too late for bluesky, because even if they started federating now, any other instance would be in such a minority that it would have zero sway over the wider federation if bluesky HQ went rogue.
That’s exactly what Bluesky was designed for: so that anyone can clone their qubibytes of data and start a new central platform anytime without any account loss (though this mechanism relies on user domain owners staying the same). You can read more at https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/ from the ‘Bluesky is centralized, but “credible exit” is a worthy pursuit’ section on.
Is this possible to do now? If BlueSky was bought out by somebody like Trump, could he disable this feature?
BlueSky is not open source, is it? The entire premise of things like mastodon and Lemmy is that they are open source and federated at their core. Nobody can change that.
BlueSky is not federated at its core or there would be other BlueSky instances.
@danc4498 @Aatube I’m not quite sure how it’s set up, but someone is trying it: https://bsky.app/profile/transrights.northsky.social/post/3lkm5ii4mo22w
Sure, but the federated aspect is not at the core of its functionality the way it is for Mastadon/Lemmy. If Elon Musk ever bought BlueSky, would he be able to shut down 3rd party instances? Or stop supporting them with security updates? Would the instances be forced to abide by whatever rules Elon says in order to stay active?
This is a hypothetical scenario, but if the answer is “yes” to any of those questions, then it is not worth the risk of moving to BlueSky. You’re just kicking the can down the road.
There is no way for Elon to come in and take over mastadon. He could buy the organization, but the software is open source he cannot ever stop that. Meaning he could never force his values onto the fediverse the way he did with Twitter.
@danc4498 agree! Just interesting to note that someone is trying a new instance. Unclear, as you say, what control they will have.
I did some digging, and it seems like BlueSky is open source. I’m not sure the process of creating an instance, or how easy it is for an instance to interact with the main instance. So maybe I take back much of what I’ve said.
The devs also made it clear that if ever bsky became crap, the system is made so that you could just jump over to another instance and go from there.
So far so good, but yeah I get it, the more they talk about investors, the more I’m reluctant to jump in fully.
Except they haven’t actually backed that up with a way for you to jump servers. If the central Bsky server goes down, it takes the network with it. Until they actually let other people host, it’s just meaningless posturing. Without a way for people to leave their network you are as captive there as you are on Twitter
They do let other people host; it’s just that they’re not going to be federated and one has to clone quite a lot of data. And there’s people mirroring Bluesky’s servers.
There is a recent community project that focuses on federating Bluesky without the Bluesky devs’ involvement:
This would be good. I just hope it can do so while still being a part of BlueSky (as it is today).
maybe it would be simple to fork this source code and form your own community
The network effect makes this extremely difficult, even with the source code, it’s basically starting from scratch again.
It’s not from scratch; every piece of old data is public. I’ve sent a link somewhere else here.
In theory I guess. But you’d need a ton of funding just to get the server power for that, and there’s no guarantee that users will switch over to your service. And if they start turning bad then they could start blocking that. Also the users are much more valuable than the data. There’s lots of ways this could fail to pan out. The Fediverse is much more flexible to new instances joining.
None of the people I follow are active on Mastodon. The selling point to me for Bluesky is that it’s essentially a Twitter clone not owned by a billionaire. It’s friendly to the communities I’m part of specifically and doesn’t have ads. What more should anyone ask for from a social media platform?
That’s a great write-up!
My $0.02 from extensive cryptocurrency experience:
A centralized project with a user base never becomes decentralized later. It’s always a lie to get users quickly. Centralization generally just gets worse.
I think BlueSky will keep half-assing decentralization until their owners decide that narrative is no longer necessary.
Bluesky didn’t have a strong of a hold on me, tried it, wasn’t impressed with what was there before deleting the account. Getting too burned out on social media in general to really be invested in these kinds of platforms. The fediverse is more or less my last rodeo.
Every time i’m amazed at how such authors are talented at avoiding mentioning Nostr 😏
You mean the Dorsey-endorsed crypto platform that has spam waves conducted against Bluesky and ActivityPub?
