This has been so good for me and my kid. If they are out and feel like they need adult help, we are a watch tap away. If they want to come home early from a friend’s house, send me a code and I’m there. If they want to go to their friend’s house after school, I’m a text away.
We have a no phone until you’re 13 rule so while the watch is a stripped down phone, it’s not a phone so easy for us all to understand, plus it’s already stripped down, no hassle no fuss.
What a weird rule. You are intentionally destroying your kid’s social, developmental, and interpersonal opportunities because you’re unwilling to actually put in the time to parent.
The least you could do is give them a dumb phone, so they are ostracized less. Or better yet, actually teach and parent them how to use a phone, and then give them a phone with locked down permissions to block tiktok/etc that are actually problematic, while still allowing them access to things that allow them to relate to friends and their community. Trust but verify.
They are parenting. This is what parenting looks like. You don’t just give them everything they want. Sure, you can also choose to give them a phone, and you can choose to lock it down. You can also choose to give them nothing. Parenting is about making those decisions for your child. It isn’t about listening to random people tell you stupid things online who act like they’re more knowledgeable about your situation.
Parenting is about making the best choices you can for your children, not simply making choices for your children. And I never said to give them everything they want. To take the example to the extreme, you could certainly give your kids ‘nothing’ in regards to food, but that’s not parenting, that’s child abuse via starvation. Obviously giving your kid access to a phone is not ANYWHERE near equivalent to access to food, but it illustrates the point- parenting is not simply deciding things for your kids, including what they get. You need to do your best to support them into becoming the best them, and that includes giving them social opportunities. In a perfect world, yes, absolutely, phones would be something you give to a kid maybe in highschool, or even when they leave the house, but only when you decide they deserve the privilege, but this isn’t that world. Phones aren’t just privileged toys- they’re the expected (and in some cases only) methods of communication and connection for people. We can sit here and argue whether or not that’s a good thing or not- I personally think it isn’t, and as someone that’s forced to be on-call 24/7/365 I think I have a pretty good grasp on the matter- but it’s where we’re currently at, and unfortunately we have to work in that structure even if and as we’re potentially trying to change it. Give your kids the opportunities, even while explaining the problems and why they need changed, you know?
The fact is, the dude says in another comment that s/he is intentionally trying to socially isolate their kids to ‘protect them’ which is textbook helicopter/overcontrolling parent and deeply fucks kids up for life. S/He literally outright says they want their kids to cleanly break from ‘friendship drama’ and the literal outside world. That’s… words cannot describe how concerning that sounds.
Well you clearly don’t have kids, and if you do, you sound like the shitty parent lol
What an odd, incorrect assumption. Kids need to be able to socialize. This isn’t the 1980s anymore, you can’t just go to a mall, there are very few physical third spaces anymore, literally none in some locations.
For a lot of kids, those third spaces are via phone/online. I can absolutely understand wanting to limit exposure to bad influences of phones, that IS good parenting, but you need to offer alternatives, or managed use, or something, or you’re socially isolating your kid. Worst case scenario, you’re getting them bullied- kids can be cruel (though from what I’ve seen, not as much as they used to be, thankfully).
The person literally said in another comment:
Yes, it’s part of set them up to succeed not fail. And another part of it is I want them to have a clean break from the outside world, from friendship drama or clinginess, from school stuff, etc.
Now, I’m assuming this is partially a situation of english not being the first language, from some of the grammar, but wanting to have their kids be ‘cleanly’ broken away from friendships, school stuff, and the very outside world sounds… look, I’m going to be frank here, their literal goal seems to be socially stunting their kid via helicoptering.
Kids need to learn who they are. You’re not trying to raise someone to be a child, you’re trying to raise someone to be a healthy, functioning adult, and part of that means going through friendships, even friendship drama, exploring the outside world, etc etc.
You
A good point, but I’ll note that most socialization for kids these days doesn’t necessarily happen at a singular friend’s house- it’s typically in a private chat/channel/group/etc online.
Under 12?
For better or worse, yes. (Probably worse, but this is the world we have to deal with…)
I feel bad for your children then
For getting to experience life instead of being locked in a house, only able to interact with family?
I think you’re interpreting way too much into that person’s post. And wrongly too.
I am, admittedly, basing some of this off other posts the guy has made in this… err, thread? Post? Not sure what the lemmy vocab is here, but I can quote it:
And another part of it is I want them to have a clean break from the outside world, from friendship drama or clinginess, from school stuff, etc.
I dunno about you man, but kids probably don’t need protected from friendships, even if they might have the occasional drama… and ‘the outside world’ comment just concerns me.
You are really telling everyone how little you know about parenting. This is what parenting looks like. You parent the kids you have with the skills and tools available. It doesn’t look the same for everyone.
You should probably sit back down.
I stopped smoking cigarettes. I’ve moved on to cigars.
I mean you say that as a joke but cigars you don’t usually inhale into your lungs. Like you’re still at risk of mouth cancer, but if you switched from Cigarettes to cigars, you wouldn’t suffer the myriad of negative health effects that comes with being a cigarette smoker which would objectively be a huge improvement.
Wait you’re not supposed to inhale cigar smoke into your lungs? How do you get high from those then?
Lmao
I did that once.
Then the cancer set in
I did the cigar thing for about a year. After that I went to a pack of cigarettes a month. About a year of that and I finally quit. I smoked for about fifteen years but I haven’t smoked tobacco in over fifteen years.
Good job, that isn’t an easy task
Parents turn to smart watches? Not in my household! Not one more fucking non Linux piece of shit spying screen more.
Gotta make sure they have an
ankle monitorsmart watch!A smartwatch seems like an interesting way to keep in touch with your kid/keep track of them. I guess it could be abused like anything else though.
My nephew has one and I kind of love getting random “have you seen cheetozard” messages from him.
What is that lol
That’s amazing. I want to have that kind of relationship with my future kids/nieces/nephews.
I don’t want kids of my own but being an uncle definitely rocks
Why do you need to keep track of your kid? Are you ever in a situation where you don’t know exactly where they are and for some reason need to?
My kids know where they can go, when they need to check in, and what time they need to be home. They know my phone number and can call me using a trusted adult’s phone. It’s really not an issue.
I’ll reply to you once, because i feel it needs to be said.
Other people, have other lives, in other places, with different kids. That gives them a different situation to yours. The fact that you and yours can/can’t do a thing doesn’t mean others can/cant.
Thank you
Fair.
I can only speak for my situation and my kids, and compare that to what I see in articles. I also can’t help but look at the stats and see rising rates of depression and whatnot that seems highly correlated to the proliferation of “helicopter parenting” and social media, which tug kids in opposite directions.
So I’ll speak up about my experience, which I think is a practical alternative to what I see on social media being pushed by groups selling products that feed on FUD.
And that’s also very fair, i tend to agree with you where parenting is more educating than helicoptering.
However cities are different, countries are different, norms even, and what might work in Paris, might not work in Dallas, or in Helsinki.
Also some kids might enjoy having the ability to talk to their parents and don’t see it as an infringement on their freedom, because it’s also how you act on the information you’re given. Others might not. You might even change your opinion if your circumstances change too.
I’d say, had you said - for my particular situation - I wouldn’t have batted an eye.
All that said, kids making mistakes and being kept far from monitoring and social media is a good thing 🤓
And thank you for being cool about this 🤩
some kids might enjoy having the ability to talk to their parents
Sure, and if that’s what they want, I don’t see an issue with it. I’m not saying phones/smart watches are bad, I’m saying that the reasons so many people get them (to track their kids) are bad.
A parent/child relationship should be based on trust, and that goes both ways. Remember, we’re not raising them to just shift subservience to you onto some other entity (e.g. government), we’re raising kids to think and act on their own, and they need some level of independence for that to happen. They’ll fail, and hopefully the consequences are severe enough to teach them before failure has more severe consequences.
If they’re always tethered to their parents via some tracking device, when will that happen? If they never take off the training wheels or mommy/daddy always catches them before they fall, when will they learn on ride on their own?
Fail early, and fail often. That’s how we learn, and we shouldn’t rob our kids of that.
I’d say, had you said - for my particular situation
That should go without saying for any opinion.
That said, people are generally pretty similar from place to place. Some of the nicest people live in some of the worst places. Kids aren’t randomly getting molested in back alleys, most of that happens with family members and close relatives.
Instead of tracking them, consider teaching them what to look out for. Generally speaking, if they keep to themselves and stay with friends, people will leave them alone. Criminals just don’t want to mess with kids.
And thank you for being cool about this 🤩
You too. 😁
Bruh I don’t even have a kid yet. Also, this could be for peace of mind if the kid is in a position where they can’t ask for help from someone else.
When you do, I hope your opinion changes because:
- A kid should never be in that position
- If they are, a phone isn’t going to help
- There’s a decent chance the phone got them into that situation (e.g. chatting with predators online)
So I reject the premise. If a kid isn’t safe without a phone, adding a phone won’t make them more safe.
We went talking about a phone we were talking about a smartwatch…
Change “phone” to “smart watch” and my point stands.
We were all kids once. You know as well as anyone that kids bullshit their parents all the time. Just because your kid might tell you where they’re going, doesn’t mean that’s where they’re going.
Sure, and that’s how they learn. When I catch them (and I have), they lose my trust, which means losing privileges for a time until that’s rebuilt.
My kid took a bike outside of the agreed area, so I took the bike away (partially disassembled) until they rebuilt my trust. A week or so later, I put it back together and told them I’m going to trust them again, and it hasn’t been a problem since. I didn’t put a tracker on the bike or anything, but they now know I’m serious about consequences. I’ve since expanded the area they’re allowed to go because they’ve earned my trust, and they’ve asked when they want to go outside the area (I usually say yes). I explain why the rules exist, and I’m pretty reasonable about being flexible.
I’d much rather they learn that when they’re young instead of getting used to working around filters and whatnot. Teach them discipline and consequences of making poor choices, if you keep the training wheels on too long, they’ll never develop it.
Why are parents so desperate to track their kids? Don’t they trust them?
We had a problem with our oldest not coming home on time. So we asked them, and they didn’t have a way to keep track of time. So we got them a cheap Casio and the problem is solved. They love the watch, and independence, and trust.
When we give our kids a phone, it won’t have any restrictions, because it means we trust them. We don’t, so we’re holding off. I’m unwilling to spy on them, so they’ll get a phone when I trust them without filters.
Kids need trust. They don’t mature without room to fuck up or succeed
Exactly! And they will screw up, so it’s important to let them fail frequently while the stakes are low instead of putting it off until the stakes are high.
I’m already teaching mine to hide his tracks better, to only steal from companies if you have to and can get away with it, not neighbors or your avg person who worked hard for their stuff.
You seem like a great parent! I’m personally leaning towards giving them dumb phones once they have to take public transport to school, for the convenience of them being able to inform me when they miss the bus or want to have lunch at a friend’s. But who knows if or when I’ll even have kids, lol. Maybe things will change in that time.
I used to miss the bus all the time before having a phone. But it didn’t matter; I wasn’t going to be late for anything, I just had to figure out another way home, usually walking which took about 45 to an hour.
If I wanted to go to a friend’s house, I’d usually just go to their house and then call using their phone.
Yeah, that’s my take as well. When they need one, we’ll start simple. If they do well with that, we’ll expand to a smartphone, again, when they need it (maps and whatnot).
Right now, my kids don’t need it since we take them to/from school (charter school), but the oldest will be changing schools soon to the local public school, so they may need one for after school activities. I’m not giving them something because their friends have it (theirs do), I’ll give them something because they need/earned it.
Yeah right. I’m going to try every spy trick in the book so they learn some goddamn common sense.
And they’ll just learn they can’t trust you. So instead of coming to you when they have a problem, they’ll go to someone else, probably online. That sounds way worse than them failing and coming to you for help.
I mean, I’m just going to do it as a dad joke, like set their background as my face so they learn to lock their device.
Lol, ok that would be funny. But if it’s completely under your control, that novelty would wear off quickly and they’d quickly stop trusting you.
Good god, that makes too much sense! Away with you, we need to implant tracking devices in our offspring and I’ll hear nothing else on the matter
I trust my kids. I don’t trust random weirdos that hang around schools though
What are you worried those “random weirdos” are going to do? I also haven’t seen those weirdos that you claim are so ubiquitous, the people who hang around schools are kids who go there.
A “random weirdo” doesn’t want anything to do with your kids. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of crimes against children are from family members or close friends, as in, the people who would be texting your child on their phone/watch.
I also haven’t seen those weirdos that you claim are so ubiquitous, the people who hang around schools are kids who go there.
Well look at you, Mr. Anecdote!
Now I’m worried that you think my kids go to the same school as your kids. Or City. Or Country. Hell, even continent
If I was legitimately worried about wierdos hanging around my kids’ school, I’d move them to a different school. Giving them a phone or smart watch won’t fix that problem.
I get that but most people can’t just move to a better neighborhood.
There is a fake moral panic about kidnapping or whatever, but some schools really are not as safe as others unfortunately, or are in more dangerous areas. People aren’t usually targeting kids but they might get caught in the crossfire :/
Sure, I absolutely get that. I just don’t think there’s as big of an intersection between people who give their kids smartphones and smart watches and people who live in crappy areas as there is with helicopter suburban parents. I also don’t see phones and smart watches as safety devices, at least for kids under 14 or so (that’s when they go out on their own more).
The manufacturers of these devices lean hard into FUD targeted mostly at mostly at those who with means, as in lower middle class and up. That same group is plagued with depression and suicide, and I think the proliferation of these devices is a big part of the problem. If you don’t have the latest gadget or aren’t on the popular SM app 24/7, you’re “left out.” But itf you are, there’s a good chance you’ll be cyber-bullied or even targeted by criminals.
So that’s why I reject the premise. In the majority of cases, smart phones and watches don’t make you safer, they arguably increase risk, and they’re expensive to boot.
Instead of opening my kids up to that, I prefer to be the “bad guy” and say no until my kids earn that privilege. And they earn it by showing that they’ll come to us with problems, because that’ll be necessary when they run into problems on these devices. If they haven’t earned my trust, they can borrow a loaner phone when they need it.
The safety thing is just an excuse. The vast majority of people could move if they needed to, just look at first generation immigrants living on nothing just to afford rent in a good school district so their kids can have a better future than them. Those were my friends growing up.
We hard disagree on that last point. Some people can’t move for various reasons.
I grew up without a phone, so I get the benefits of learning to be independent. I also got myself a Google voice number at a young age so I wouldn’t be left out of friend groups because of not having a phone. It really is ostracizing, and back then it wasn’t as bad as it is today.
I also think the safety concerns are way overblown and what some parents really want is to know their kids’ locations at all times and be able to talk to them at all times. I’m not a parent so I can’t judge, but that’s not how I grew up, and I’m not sure it’s good for kids or parents to be that connected.
They still make flip phones that aren’t “smart”
Yes but kids are less likely to lose watches.
Also it’s rare that a classroom would have a no watches rule.
The image here is My First Fone. For Android it has terrible notifications. I’m constantly missing messages and calls from my kid.
My kid’s been walking to/from school and roaming the neighborhood since he was 7. Apple Watch FTW. It has its legit uses.
You know there are cheaper watches that do the same thing right
Name three.
“I’m going to strap a $700 watch to this $15K bag of organs, as a tip”
Really moronic take.
Somebody doesn’t have a sense of humor it seems
You’re joking, obtusely, about abduction and murder of children. You expect people to be amused?
This is the internet. Some people will. Probably a lot. Do you expect everybody to have your exact same sensibles and kind of humor?
I get it. I’d bet the other commenters don’t have kids. There’s hypothetical jokes about kids, then there’s jokes to someone about their actual kid. Commenting on a post VS replying to this person who has a kid.
I grew up with a very paranoid father. Somehow this guy has a stack of rough city survival stories but I couldn’t leave the suburban block. I don’t know the best way to raise a kid, but a watch and more freedom to roam sounds nice.
I have a kid. She turns 18 in September. I thought it was funny.
I also still make jokes about my mom, and she is now sitting on top of a shelf at Dad’s house as of a few months ago.
Sure, normalizing paranoia is very funny and definitely doesn’t have any real world negative consequences. Har-de-har-har.
If the neighborhood is safe for a 7 year old without an Apple watch, go ahead. If it’s but the case and they think the watch will make a difference… That’s negligence.
Sounds like something the secret government cabal would say.
Just the tip, I promise
As someone who’s 23 and grew up with smartphones and all of that as they were starting to become popular I feel like I have some takes on a lot of the opinions I’ve seen on the different sides of issues like this. I lean in general towards giving your kid a phone once they’re old enough to want to be able to talk with friends and do things on their own afterschool but having some non-intrusive ways to keep an eye on what they’re doing with it until sometime when they’re a teenager. That just seems like the best way to not ostracize them from other kids while still making sure they’re being safe online. Even though in general things worked out fine for me with my parents letting me have my own laptop and iPod touch and eventually iPhone from a pretty young age without really watching what I did on them I definitely see a lot of times that I could have ended up being taken advantage of online if things had been slightly different. And the reason I say non-intrusive ways to keep track of what your kid is doing is because I knew kids who did have like parental restrictions on their phones and all of them knew ways to bypass them and do what they wanted to do anyways. So the only way you’re gonna successfully keep an eye on them is if they don’t know you are and you only interfere if it’s a genuine safety problem, and even then you make sure to not punish them for it as that will make them start hiding things from you actively, you treat it as a learning moment and help them understand why what they were doing wasn’t safe. I’m still very much figuring out what my exact views on this are but I think leaning too far in either direction of not letting them have social media or a smartphone at all even when they’re starting to reach middle school or letting them have unrestricted access to social media and a phone both have their problems and you have to find a good balance in the middle.
I think there’s evidence that the ostracism from not being with peers (on phones, etc,) is worse than whatever benefit is gained by waiting until later.
I feel like it can’t be harmful for a parent to limit how much time they can spend on a phone though, but maybe I’m out of touch.
Parents should be involved in their kids lives enough to look at some things together with them on the phone but IDK how much people have time for that…
We do this, 2 timex family family connect watches, the older green ones off eBay. It’s perfect and it opened up the privilege of walking home from school, walking to the park, and walking to friends houses as long as they keep it charged and check in. The newer ones look like an apple watch which I felt made them a theft target but the old ones have changed the family’s life. Then, we can ask them to do chores when they get home from school, and if they do, they can ask us to unlock tablet.
Well I certainly understand the pros of this but is training your kid to have a dopamine response everytime a notification comes in and buzzes their arm is dangerous, no? It’s like training the kid to always want that feeling for the rest of their life
In five years: “After global ban of smart watches in schools, parents are increasingly turning to bodyguards and private chaperones”.
I’m sure it works in theory but wearing that for however long sounds a bit much. Now, is it a good idea? That’s a whole another can of worms.
Reasonable point, but people have worn watches all day for centuries. Just clean then and rotate wrists.
Something that big and heavy on a kid’s arm is going to get uncomfortable after like ten minutes.
One watch, the Garmin Bounce, weights 37.2 g. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/714945#specs
Hardly heavy.
That’s not so bad. I was looking at the picture in the article. That thing is enormous compared to the kid’s arm.
Understandable, the watch is the photo does appear large. Kid’s arms are tiny.
I have a Pixel Watch that’s about that size (36g IIRC), and I don’t like wearing it, and I’m a grown adult.
I got my kids cheap Casios, and they’re like 20g. Way better.
My kid has it in their schoolbag, just wears it on the way home and later if they go out. They don’t have to wear it all the time.
