You’re more than welcome to look up statistics. ~60% of the chronicly homeless have life long mental health issues, and ~80% have substance abuse issues.
Pretty much every city/state has resources to help the homeless, but the homeless have to be willing to accept the help. Most shelters are drug free, so addicts don’t want to stay there and they won’t accept people whose mental illness makes them violent.
You can’t force a person to take their medicine or stop doing drugs unless you want to start building more prisons.
Again, I was never saying that all homelessness is a choice, but a lot of people choose not to accept the help that’s available.
Source: My wife has her masters in the field and used to work with these populations as an addiction counselor, in Texas, so I know that resources exist at a state level even in a state that clearly hates it’s citizens.
You’re more than welcome to look up statistics. ~60% of the chronicly homeless have life long mental health issues, and ~80% have substance abuse issues.
When did I say anything remotely resembling what you’re implying here? You are saying it is mostly a choice. That is what I am disputing. That is not statistics. You are assigning value and making assumptions in the absence of evidence.
Again, I was never saying that all homelessness is a choice, but a lot of people choose not to accept the help that’s available.
I did not say you said all homelessness is a choice. I said, for the 3rd time now, that I objected to your assigning choice as the primary cause that explains why most people are homeless. Stop reducing our points and putting up strawmen. Stop pretending I’m saying things I didn’t say. Stop responding to arguments I am not making. So let’s try this again:
You said:
“People have this idea that all homeless people are just regular people who experienced hard times, but that’s just a minority. Most homeless are mentally ill people who won’t take their meds or drug addicts who aren’t willing to quit.”
I said:
“Framing this as primarily a choice is deeply problematic.”
So are you going to actually talk about what we said or are you going to keep building strawmen and pretending you can’t read what I’m writing?
Neoliberals never seem to get around to actually address what’s being said. They just hem and haw about why they can’t do anything about it, as they pull their SUVs into the third stall in their garage.
Honestly, it feels even more pernicious than that. People like him just try on opinion like hats, to borrow from the “alt-right playbook,” then discard them when they are no longer convenient. They aren’t even trying to make a coherent argument, they’re just trying to tear down the argument of whoever they are talking to. And when that fails, they just go “well, it’s not like I ever made a statement about what I believe. I’m just explaining the logic” and similar nonsense.
I know better than to get all pissed off and escalate things, but I’m just finding it so goddamn frustrating at this point. I am so tired of people misrepresenting arguments I couldn’t have possibly been any clearer about.
I was hoping this place would be less like Reddit, but every day it feels more like it again. I’m sure I’ve contributed in my own ways, but I don’t know. I guess my optimism has been misplaced.
Framing this as primarily a choice is deeply problematic.
For many it literally is a choice, and framing homelessness as something that no one has control over is problematic.
No don’t change the parameters here. You said “most” are mentally ill or drug addicts who are
“unwilling” to get help.
I never said it was something no one has control over. I said “framing it primarily as a choice.” Do not put words in my mouth.
You’re more than welcome to look up statistics. ~60% of the chronicly homeless have life long mental health issues, and ~80% have substance abuse issues.
Pretty much every city/state has resources to help the homeless, but the homeless have to be willing to accept the help. Most shelters are drug free, so addicts don’t want to stay there and they won’t accept people whose mental illness makes them violent.
You can’t force a person to take their medicine or stop doing drugs unless you want to start building more prisons.
Again, I was never saying that all homelessness is a choice, but a lot of people choose not to accept the help that’s available.
Source: My wife has her masters in the field and used to work with these populations as an addiction counselor, in Texas, so I know that resources exist at a state level even in a state that clearly hates it’s citizens.
When did I say anything remotely resembling what you’re implying here? You are saying it is mostly a choice. That is what I am disputing. That is not statistics. You are assigning value and making assumptions in the absence of evidence.
I did not say you said all homelessness is a choice. I said, for the 3rd time now, that I objected to your assigning choice as the primary cause that explains why most people are homeless. Stop reducing our points and putting up strawmen. Stop pretending I’m saying things I didn’t say. Stop responding to arguments I am not making. So let’s try this again:
You said:
“People have this idea that all homeless people are just regular people who experienced hard times, but that’s just a minority. Most homeless are mentally ill people who won’t take their meds or drug addicts who aren’t willing to quit.”
I said:
“Framing this as primarily a choice is deeply problematic.”
So are you going to actually talk about what we said or are you going to keep building strawmen and pretending you can’t read what I’m writing?
Neoliberals never seem to get around to actually address what’s being said. They just hem and haw about why they can’t do anything about it, as they pull their SUVs into the third stall in their garage.
Honestly, it feels even more pernicious than that. People like him just try on opinion like hats, to borrow from the “alt-right playbook,” then discard them when they are no longer convenient. They aren’t even trying to make a coherent argument, they’re just trying to tear down the argument of whoever they are talking to. And when that fails, they just go “well, it’s not like I ever made a statement about what I believe. I’m just explaining the logic” and similar nonsense.
I think you’re spot on.
I know better than to get all pissed off and escalate things, but I’m just finding it so goddamn frustrating at this point. I am so tired of people misrepresenting arguments I couldn’t have possibly been any clearer about.
I was hoping this place would be less like Reddit, but every day it feels more like it again. I’m sure I’ve contributed in my own ways, but I don’t know. I guess my optimism has been misplaced.