A crowd destroyed a driverless Waymo car in San Francisco::A Waymo car was destroyed in San Francisco as a crowd began vandalizing it and ultimately set the car on fire. Nobody was in the vehicle at the time.

  • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    This is dumb as fuck. Human drivers are literally the number one cause of preventable fatalities.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Individual transportation is the number one cause of preventable road fatalities, human or machine doesn’t matter.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        Individual transportation is the number one cause of preventable road fatalities,

        Even in an ideally car-free society, you will literally never be able to get rid of taxis, deliveries, moving large furniture / household items, etc. without some form of enclosed motorized transportation (a car for the purposes of this discussion).

        human or machine doesn’t matter

        If we make machines that are safer than humans than yeah, it will.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          Even in an ideally car-free society, you will literally never be able to get rid of taxis, deliveries, moving large furniture / household items, etc. without some form of enclosed motorized transportation (a car for the purposes of this discussion).

          That’s not individual transportation. None of it. And do imagine how your city would look like if those were the only vehicles on the roads. Go to the next intersection, count cars, see how many of them would be gone, how much road surface could be converted into a tram lane, comfortable bike lanes, greenery, also, a hot dog stand.

          If we make machines that are safer than humans than yeah, it will.

          Malaria might be less severe than the bubonic plague still doesn’t mean I want to catch it.

          • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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            9 months ago

            Well the don’t shift goal posts to “individual transportation” when we’re talking about people thrashing a self driving car.

            They didn’t trash a normal individual transporter.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              You can do automated taxis, deliveries and moving services, not so much.

              • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                9 months ago

                You can still automate the driving part of moving and delivery services, which is the dangerous part.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  No. Not securing loads is the dangerous part. You need a human in there anyway and with the current sorry state of driving automation best you can do is have them browse the delivery list while the car is handling a traffic jam.

                  There’s a reason you don’t see the likes of UPS or DHL get into automated cars, but venture capital moonshot tech companies promising nonsense on the one hand, as well as traditional car manufacturers with way more reasonable claims. IIRC Audi is actually leading the pack.

                  And it’s not like UPS or DHL know nothing about vehicles, they’re driving custom orders. DHL even was a manufacturer for some time.

                  • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                    9 months ago

                    No. Not securing loads is the dangerous part.

                    Jesus christ, you’re trying to argue that driving isn’t dangerous? Ok bud, glad to see you’re approaching this discussion in good faith /s

                    There’s a reason you don’t see the likes of UPS or DHL get into automated cars, but venture capital moonshot tech companies promising nonsense on the one hand,

                    Yeah, cause they literally started from DARPA’s moonshot program and take massive amounts of cutting edge machine learning to execute, not exactly DHL / UPS’ strong suit given that they contracted out development of almost all of their software until very recently.

    • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      Great, so anything that humans do that can potentially harm another human, should be given to the algorithms instead?

      Sure, they’re private for-profit blackbox algorithms, but it’s obviously better then letting humans do things.

      Don’t worry, I’m sure once the tech oligarchs have secured just another 25% control over our daily lives, they’ll start the giving back and bettering humanity parts of their business plans.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        Great, so anything that humans do that can potentially harm another human, should be given to the algorithms instead?

        Uh yeah, once it’s proven safer why wouldn’t you?

        Because you’re scared of the word algorithm?

        Don’t worry, I’m sure once the tech oligarchs have secured just another 25% control over our daily lives, they’ll start the giving back and bettering humanity parts of their business plans.

        You seem to have an issue with wealth distribution, not autonomous vehicles.

    • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      The fact that a thing most people do and some for hours daily has a large effect shouldn’t be surprising

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        The fact that a thing most people do and some for hours daily has a large effect shouldn’t be surprising

        Oh wow, what good reasoning!

        Let’s all take up smoking cigarettes indoors all day, it’s incredibly dangerous and is killing mass numbers of people on a literal daily basis, but that’s fine because everyone’s doing it, so the effect shouldn’t be surprising, so that makes it ok and not worth addressing!

        /s

        • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          That’s not the argument I’m making. What I’m saying is that if you only take the raw numbers for a given event into account, and don’t consider the population of the event, then you can make any event affecting a large population look like an urgent affair when it’s not so urgent

          Human driven cars should be replaced with automation (or even better, automated public transportation) as soon as it’s viable. It’s not yet, so we should not rush corporations to put their unsafe vehicles on the street. Because then the only thing you’ll rush is transforming human driver fatalities into robotic driver fatalities, and you never know how worse things can get

          Edit: Wording

          • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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            9 months ago

            and don’t consider the population of the event, then you can make any event affecting a large population look like an urgent affair when it’s not so urgent

            How is this different from my cigarettes analogy? You’re just arguing it’s not a big deal that hundreds of people are dying on a daily basis, because a lot of people drive.

            rushing for corporations to put their unsafe vehicles on the street should not be rushed

            Fully agreed.

            Human driven cars should be replaced with automation (or even better, automated public transportation) as soon as it’s viable. It’s not yet

            Except that it is. Waymo already has a safer per mile rating than human drivers.

    • Melllvar@startrek.website
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      9 months ago

      I wouldn’t hang my hat on that statistic until after autonomous cars make up a significant portion of cars on the road.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        Fair point, but the difference is that human drivers are already at roughly their limit for how good they can drive, but self driving cars have the potential to exceed us.

        It’s similar to one of the biggest arguments in electric vs gas cars. Even if electric cars today are just as environmentally unfriendly as gas cars (they’re not) the difference is that gas technology is super mature and there’s very little improvements to be made by spending more money on it, electric battery technology on the other hand, is still in it’s relative infancy and has huge potential to improve in numerous ways, but that can only happen if more people buy electric so more R&D money can be spent on it.