Switch to Linux!
From Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1as1yjk/microsoft_in_their_infinite_wisdom_has_replaced/
I must admit, “Linux becomes the refuge of luddites” was never on any bingo card I could have conceived of for 202X.
Huh? Isn’t this about Microsoft changing out a button with a well established use, in order to take advantage of muscle memory and the unobservant?
Don’t think it’s much to do with people opposing technological advancement, but rather with opposing another company wanting to making a fool of them.
More over being a luddite on Linux is like a fish trying to breathe in a public swimming pool; it works until the chlorine poisoning sets in.
Linux adopts new technology constantly.The difference is that Linux generally adopts new technology because it enhances the user experience in some way, and not because it maximizes ad revenue and telemetry.
Very true.
Ehn, one can survive pretty long with a stable distro.
Yes, but eventually that LTS goes EOL and you’ll have to move from that abandonware.
Ubuntu LTS versions can last 10-12 years before EOL.
Yes, 10-12y to swim, slowly in-taking chlorine overtime…
Then when you do finally switch, you find yourself in a similar yet vastly different swimming pool and the cycle starts over.
Imagine when eventually the LTS goes Wayland only and Luddites go : “I’mma just stay with my abandonware forever.”
Luddites hate adapting to new technology as a character trait, it’s what makes them a Luddite.
Luddites will often choose to deal with decrepit, vulnerable, abandonware then change to something new because they don’t want to spend a week learning new “muscle memory”.
This is just another gripe about how Microsoft is putting AI into everything. If it’s really just about the position of a button (which apparently can be changed in the settings if you still want it there) it’s even more petty. Certainly not worth posting about on a general technology community.
I work in IT, and every time I do an install (sometimes new computers, sometimes not) for someone I see Microsoft’s little News widget they put on the Taskbar, the one that pops up a huge window if you mouse over it. Every time I see that, I ask the person if they ever use it, and they always say no. Then I ask them if they want it gone, and they always say yes, usually with some kind of relief. It’s a matter of two clicks to do it, easier than going into the settings menu like your screenshot, but every computer I haven’t been on previously has it. Now, I’d wonder why Microsoft would put something on the Taskbar that is, in my experience, universally disliked. To me it reeks of the pathetic, groveling, “I’ll suck your dick” energy they have when someone installs Chrome.
Windows 10 changed a lot over the course of its lifetime, and while some feature are good, like Dark Mode, they’re mostly useless or downright bad. So putting something that most people will never use and will greatly confuse and annoy the average user in a place that has been dedicated to a single function for at the very least Windows 10’s entire lifetime (I think it’s there in 8 and maybe 7 also) for seemingly no reason other than to fuck with people’s muscle memory is just one more move very worthy of griping about, no matter how easy it is for users to turn off. Because 99% of users just won’t, because they aren’t confident enough to go futzing around in the settings. But they’ll still get whatever god awful popup this button shows every time they try to show desktop like they’ve been doing for over a decade. It’s yet another change that nobody asked for, nobody will use, and that the user will have to remember that it’s different now for no reason.
The Luddites of Linux are one’s desperately trying to convince people that Xorg is perfectly flawless and that Wayland is vaporware.
A luddite should ideally not involve in Display Server wars
Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?
Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.
It’s simply functionally inferior now. Calling people luddites won’t change that.
Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?
Literally, YOU right now.
Also, this is the linux community; everyone has an opinion on everyone else’s opinion.Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.
LabWC, Enlightenment, Wayfire, Weston, Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.
It’s simply functionally inferior now.
It’s functionally superior in many ways, and here’s the real kicker, its actually maintainable and expandable.
Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.
I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.Just fyi this isn’t the Linux community. It’s just “technology”.
Granted on lemmy it’s basically just one big Linux community.
Didn’t even realize lmao.
Literally, YOU right now.
I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions. So I don’t care about you in particular.
Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.
Wrong.
Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.
I don’t use HDR and I don’t care. Just like you don’t care about what I use.
its actually maintainable and expandable.
Yes, I’m sure somewhere 10 years after I’ll use it after it’s been finally expanded to something usable.
I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.
Too bad
I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions
You answer you’re own opinions? funny.
Wrong
CWM : stacking window manger
LabWC, Enlightenment, Wayfire, Weston, and Sway, etc.FVWM : Tab Window Manager
DWL, Hyprland, Sway again, etc.You’re factually disproven.
I don’t use HDR and I don’t care…
I’m sure somewhere 10 years after…Luddite : one who is opposed to technological change.
Thanks for proving my point. For further discussion you can TELNET me @ www.megaboomerenergy.com::80This is incomprehensible, you are arguing not having seen once what you are arguing about.
If you want a 1:1 equivalent WM, then you’ll just have to build it yourself scrub.
The WMs I listed can already do everything CWM & FVWM can, then some.
deleted by creator
inevitably run into a problem with Linux
This has nothing to do with any of kind of Linux problem.
It’s just Luddites crying because Linux is moving on from outdated flawed software that has a bunch of unfixable problems.
Same shit happens with windows, my guy. “WHAAAAAAAA MY WINDOWS XP/98 WHAAAAAA”, at least it’s often partially valid for windows…
Luddites are not exclusive to any particular OS.If someone is having a Linux issue, they just need to ask. Literally just ask me, or the vast major of other users, we’ll literally provide better tech support than Windows will ever have.
yeah I’ve seen the windows support forums, every official response either misses the point of the question or the answer is straight up wrong.
What gets me is the replies like “just wipe it & reinstall the whole thing”.
Yeah right, like I’mma spend an entire hour wiping, reformatting and reinstalling Windows, then varying additional time reconfiguring everything for a problem that likely has an extremely simple solution but they’re too lazy to gather the necessary information to actually solve it.
Assuming that the Windows installer doesn’t fuck up and I have to restart the install process again, which has happened to me several times.
At least Linux takes 5-10m tops to install for the user friendly distros.
Even I, a Linux user who’s spent hours upon days debugging kernel issues for my hardware can see how fuckin stupid that shit copout advice is.
Yeah, I don’t know why they devolve back to tribalism. I just installed the thing and the programs I had to use and just…kept using it since I didn’t want to pirate windows xd. No need to shout to others what’s my favorite fake non Unix distro or anything.
This is not tribalism.
This is people crying because Windows moved from 95 to 98 for comparison.Xorg has a plethora of unfixable issues, and people are mad that we can’t & don’t want to stick to it for all eternity, crippling the hell out of Linux growth & innovation.
I just hope they get rid of the ancient stuff to make the neckbeards seethe xd
If Linux Luddites could TELNET into Lemmy, they would be very angry with you!
It would mean corporate software support. And while you might still choose FOSS, it means money pouring into Linux—which is always a good thing.
friendly reminder that https://theconversation.com/im-a-luddite-you-should-be-one-too-163172
That article attempts to paint Luddism in a positive light and then tries to redefine the term to mean something very for “neo-Luddites” anyway. I don’t find it particularly compelling or well reasoned.
What do you mean? Vocal parts of Linux community is about 80% luddites
Muscle memory abuse
That’s what made me refuse to use the Reddit official app before their API garbage. Every update was a gamble as to whether they’d try to make me spend money through muscle memory.
reminds me of discord
Never used it. It asked for my phone number for verification when I tried to sign up, a long time back. I was like
I guess user name does not check out.
I’ve been using Linux since Ubuntu was in the single digits. Looks like windows entering the double digits is finally the end. I thought win10 would be able to stay relatively unmolested, but nope, copilot button and bullshit right there in the bar. Why can’t you just leave us the fuck alone. Your driving everyone away who doesn’t have a professional obligation to use your OS. I’ll still have to keep a old win10 boot drive that never connects to a network so I can play games and use CAD that Linux can’t. As a KDE fanboi they’ve added pretty much everything I’ve always wished for and plasma 6 is launching.
Now is my time. Fuck you Microsoft. I won’t miss you.
10+ years with Linux as my daily driver (yeah I’m old). When my os updates, it’s almost always with some feature that’s pretty neat.
Nowadays the steamdeck or some combo of Linux with steam can play my games, do my work, and I actively make other people’s lives better when I contribute.
Thanks for your contribution to the Linux ecosystem!
It’s people like you who make this whole thing possible
Anyone can. It’s part of what makes it great.
Have you tried gaming on Linux lately? You don’t need Windows anymore except if you use GamePass, because MS has locked that software down to Windows. The only problem game I had was The Finals until recently, and it now works on Linux. Besides that the only issue is I can’t mod Baulder’s Gate 1 because it requires injecting things and that doesn’t work with Linux as far as I can figure out. The game runs fine.
Yes, I’m a long time mint user, and I was also a 1st batch steamdeck so I’ve seen how far just proton has come. There’s still a handful of games that just won’t work, work but not with the mods I need, or take a performance hit. I also have a driving simulator with a VR headset. I’m sure I could get it running on Linux eventually but windows just does it. Recognizes and just installed the drivers for all my hardware. And for VR, there are now a lot of solutions, but I’ve found windows to just be the fastest and best performing. I need every frame I can get running vr on a 2060.
Yeah, modding sucks right now. If the game let’s you manually add mods without injecting, then it’s fine, though manual can take a while. Nexus Mod Manager (and most others, though CKAN for KSP(1&2) works pretty well but won’t launch the game through that application for me) don’t work yet for Linux, but it looks like they’re working on a new application that’ll run natively on Linux, so I’m looking forward to that.
r2modman has a native Linux client as well and handles pretty much all unity games
I flirted with gnome this install around. I’m so lazy to reinstall yet again to get back to my previous plasma. Seriously Linux is a way better experience these days, I wish those that could would just give it an honest shot. The learning curve isn’t too bad once you understand a couple things.
Gnome is awful. It’s almost as bad as windows. Basically 0 customization, and getting worse every release. I can’t even fathom how you would voluntarily switch from plasma to gnome and not immediately switch back
It just works for me, and I prefer the look to that of KDE. Like, fair enough if it’s not your cup of tea, but your basic point here is “I don’t like the workflow and I highly value customisation”, and you then act like your subjective preferences are fact.
You can customise Gnome quite a lot, btw. I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.
I dislike how they took away minimizing windows. Please help me understand the lack of system tray. I have apps that go there and I have a plugin to bring it back and all the icons have a black background which is super annoying.
Discord, telegram, signal, flameshot, and others are in there and I don’t understand how gnome intends me to access them otherwise when they’re “closed” in the background.
i’ve always been able to minimize windows from the alt-space window menu. but they are enabling all kinds of customization through the extensions. i have transparent windows (every window, not just apps that support it as part of their functionality), tiling through the Forge extension, the tweak tool gives you lots of stuff including restoring the minimize button to where you think it should be, and there is even an extension to give you your system tray back. but now the gnome team can just focus on putting together the essential parts, and people who want thefunctionality you describe can build it and install it through the extensions.
i, too, was a bit put off when they ditched the gnome2 look and feel, and i stayed on xfce for a long time. but my job had me using windows and i found out that i like just hitting super, typing what i want to do, and then it happens.
now, the software center’s tendency to tell me to reboot for updates is something else. we can hotswap kernels now. don’t fucking tell me i need to reboot.
My experience with the extensions is they frequently break on gnome updates and sometimes functionality is missing when updated and it’s been a disaster imo
I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.
I’m forced to use it at work if I want to use linux. You really can’t, and to customize even a little bit you need lots of extra tools and maybe even access the css. For example, https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ is the only way to get a usable task bar. And calling it usable is being very generous.
The gnome devs are extremely opinionated in removing configuration and features. It’s honestly disgusting
Idk with a couple of extensions I really enjoy the GNOME work-flow. Although I admit KDE on my SteamDeck has been tempting me lately.
KDE is amazing and you should give it a try. It’s unbelievably customizable, and is so much more seamless. Having to use gnome is almost as frustrating as having to use macos. And in a lot of the same ways. Like, trying to get a usable task bar in gnome is infuriating.
usable task bar in gnome
Just one easy to enable extension for this, but it should definitely be the default. Overall I like the stock GNOME experience and find it clean. When you get the hang of GNOME it starts to make sense. Super key is the answer.
KDE is obviously more powerful, but I don’t like customizing my desktop very much so that point is moot for me.
I’m going full KDE for the next 6 months, you should try GNOME for a bit, give it a solid chance with extensions.
I’m forced to use gnome at work. It’s horrible
that’s a fair opinion, but for some people they feel the same way about KDE (me). Gnome’s workflow is killer for me, and I love the consistency in design and intent with everything.
I suppose not everybody just wants customizability
Didin’t Linux had FreeCAD?
Yes, and holy shit has it come so far. Unfortunately in the professional world you often just need the native program to open the file. Even just for compatability, but rolling back and/or modifying is only possible within its native software.
Would OnShape be an option for you ? I haven’t booted up Windows since I was able to work with OnShape to replace Solidworks. But I just do hobby projects. I didn’t have to worry about compatibility for collaboration.
FreeCAD…is getting there. They’re actually heading toward a 1.0 release, and bringing usability and convenience features. I’d say by 2025 it’ll be a better value proposition than the “Free non-commerical use drawbackware” tier offerings from Onshape or Fusion360.
Ubuntu used to be animals!
It still is. There’s an animal “codename” and a number for all releases.
So many memories, dapper drake with the LTS. For some reason I used karmic koala which is 9.10 until 12. I played thousands of hours of minecraft and ksp because other that valve games those where like the only two that ran naively without fucking around with the abomination that wine was at the time.
Oh yay!!
Ubuntu used to be naked people!
Lol what am I reading?
Sorry, that was the best link I could find at that moment. Since the word “ubuntu” means something like “humanity towards others,” Canonical really leaned into that concept with their tagline “Linux for human beings” in the early days. This involved shipping some controversial wallpaper images and using less risque shots from the same photo shoot on things like the CD-ROM cover.
🤣
I noticed this bullshit a few days ago on my Win 11 desktop! I found if you go check the settings of the start bar, you can hide the copilot icon in the lower right, and then there’s a check box to enable the lower right hand corner to work as show desktop again. The functionality can be restore to exactly as it was, but what the hell were they thinking.
Enshitification, plain and simple.
Switch to Linux!
As a Linux user myself, let me tell you that telling people what they should/must do this is how you make people plainly ignore you and think you’re just an annoying person.
People will keep using what works for them, be it Windows/Linux/MacOS even if with minor inconveniences. Same goes for browsers/services/etc…
“Microsoft continually makes their OS worse, but every time they do, Linux users come into the comment section telling me I should switch, so I’m not going to.”
People don’t switch just because of some minor inconvenience (as if Linux didn’t have any…) and outside of Lemmy/the Fediverse echo chamber very few people are concerned about privacy. They will switch (maybe) if the new tool works better for them than thge previous one. Otherwise, why should they bother? Linux is my primary OS since many years, but it isn’t everybody’s cup of tea.
This echo chamber gets LOUD, too!
The thing is, is that it really doesn’t affect people in the way you guys seem to imagine.
I’ve used Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Currently use Windows for work as a C# . net, SQL / GraphQL, and React TypeScript developer and although I was shocked they’re all pro windows, coming from MacOS. Once you get used to it you don’t really notice the shit stuff as you just do what you’re doing.
I would still rate my experiences in this order though: MacOS, Linux, Windows. Best to worst, but like I said even though in now use the worst in my opinion it really doesn’t have much of an impact. Plus if I were to use Linux I’d need to geek out and waste so much time configuring it and I’m past that stage.
I work in healthcate and use windows, at work and at home if I need to do work related stuff. I don’t mind windows at work as it’s been configured for the purpose and all the shitty bits are switched off - something Microsoft let’s it’s business users do. It’s a decent operating system when it’s set up to do what it needs to do, and I’m very familiar with it from using it since Windows 95.
I used to use windows at home and had Linux for occasional interest. But in the last few years I’ve moved away from windows and now I’m on Linux as my main driver on multiple devices.
For home users Windows is getting pretty shitty - it steals data all the time with numerous privacy settings you have to set to try and stop it, it tries to force you ads, it tries to force you to use its Web browser, it bundles lots of sponsored apps and when it does a big update it resets alot of your choices on privacy plus reinstalls removed bundle apps. It also throws new “features” at you which take up resources and impact privacy. Like Xbox gaming - I didn’t ask for it, I don’t want it, stop installing it every year and stop forcing an overlay on my own games.
It’s really a chore to use windows now; it feels like a constant battle to make sure it’s not intruding on your data and privacy or showing you ads. I now use windows as the exception when there is a specific game that doesn’t work in Linux. The rest of the time I boot into Linux, or use a separate work provided Windows device for home working.
I know it’s probably a case of “who asked” but I guess I just mean I get that windows can be decent for work related stuff (or necessary) but when it comes to personal stuff it’s a bit of a nightmare. And I guess it also comes down to whether the privacy invasion and advertising bothers users. Bothers me a lot, but some people don’t seem to care how the customer has become the product.
Most people don’t care because most of your problems are all privacy related. And that’s what Linux people don’t seem to get. They rant and rave about how much better Linux is… for privacy. But the average Joe doesn’t know or care that data is being collected and for the most part it doesn’t affect them. It’s just some Boogeyman being thrown at them. What they care about is ease of use and convience. They don’t dig into those details because, for the most part, they’re not even aware.
When Linux people say it’s a “better experience”, they largely mean detailed customization and more privacy.
When Windows people say it’s a “better experience”, they mostly mean that it’s the same relatively easy to use experience on every device and it Just Works®.
They’re both right. But each side argues their side of the conversation not seeing that the other side has a perfectly justified use case for theirs. It’s like arguing that everyone should drive a van and not understanding why someone might not want one.
Ask most people if they’re okay with the government installing cameras/microphones in their own home. If someone says they’re sincerely okay with that then hopefully we can agree there is a difference between having a preference and not understanding what is in their own best interests. I draw the line further; the same applies for privacy of your own computing.
I know it’s probably a case of “who asked”
No, no. You’re welcome here too and your experience is really helpful to share, and also helps to dispell this idea that all Linux users are basement geeks pushing a software cult LOL.
I’m the same way, right there with you. I loved classic Windows for decades. My real last straw was when I was helping my sister with a reinstall and discovered firsthand how pushy they were being with forcing a Microsoft Account.
“Oh no problem, you just have to disable WiFi completely via the switch, otherwise it’ll complain that you need an internet connection, so then you need to try three times unsuccessfully on purpose and THEN it’ll let you make a local account.”
“Ok they don’t do that anymore, now you need to use a keyboard shortcut to open a CMD prompt, disable a service…”
It’s completely blunt anymore how Microsoft feels about customers: They think we’re stupid cattle they’ve been raising since the 90’s to “click OK” and make accounts for anything they want. I wish they weren’t so right…
Since then, I found terminal stuff to actually be fun and at least Linux feels like it’s MY machine, not like I paid $100+ for a license key to rent their software that always begs me for more and rats on me at every turn.
But yeah, “just switch” isn’t helping anyone. We need to guide and support more people into it
Get AutoCAD on Linux and I’m there buddy. Some of us need to work.
Autodesk is the only entity who would be able to do that, due to the code being proprietary.
Not impossible to happen, though. Autodesk already has Maya available for Linux.
Obviously there are alternatives like FreeCAD, but alternatives aren’t always an option.
Also, while AutoCAD might not work right now, WINE is getting better rapidly, and, while not guaranteed, it (along with Adobe programs) could theoretically work in the future without them needing to port the software. Of course, the companies porting the software would be the preferred solution here.
I’m personally not a fan of relying on proprietary technology for work, but most people are not in control of what their boss says they have to use, and the concept of proprietary “industry standards” continues to be a thing, partly due to lobbying and giving free copies to educators (Autodesk. Adobe, Apple, Google, and Microsoft are all very guilty of this). Unfortunately, I don’t see that changing soon.
Hell forget about AutoCAD, what about word and EXCEL. now you and Linux dudebros will tell me there are alternatives on Linux like libre office and what not. To them I say this
- Make a document in libreoffice , try to save it as docx and see what says libreoffice, or make a doc in word and adjust formatting, try to open same doc in libre office and see what shit show it becomes
- Hand down no body can beat ms excel, on multiple platforms, the versality is not just complex formulas but functions like xlookup, index match , combined with VBA scripting with formulas that can low-key fight python , power tables are unparalleled, if you can replicate these without A SINGLE COMMAND line input for dumb users like us That would the win.
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Blame Microsoft for not conforming to their own standard. There’s a reason the EU uses ODF instead of the mess that is OOXML. Different versions of MS Office aren’t even fully compatible with each other. Also nowadays, you can use Office 365 in a web browser. For desktop, there is LibreOffice and OnlyOffice, which have okay compatibility. MS Office can also open ODF files, as is legally mandated by the EU, since it would be considered anticompetative if they didn’t.
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I don’t use those functions of Excel, so I can’t comment. Also to be clear, are you asking if you can program without a Terminal? I’m not even sure what the question is. VBA is a proprietary Microsoft-specific scripting language, so of course there won’t be native support for that in non-Windows OSs, although there might be a reverse engineering effort I’m not familiar with.
Blaming Linux for a problem that Microsoft caused and won’t solve due to anticompetative practices is just dumb. Microsoft basically invented the concept of Embrace, Extend, extinguish, and Office is a prime example of that.
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I’m curious what their reason for porting Maya was? That’s really interesting.
Likely because of the use of Linux (and historically UNIX with SGI workstations) in Hollywood for CG artists.
Maybe they are not Linux users, maybe they are Microsoft employees trying to keep you on Windows by making Linux users look obnoxious.
I for one enjoy salty Microsoft tears, just makes me feel better with my choice completely ditching them.
Keep 'em coming.
Literally what? I’m a Linux user bro
It wasn’t directed to you, it is directed to people constantly crying about their choice
Exactly. As a musician many paid music plugins simply don’t work on Linux because of all the installers attached to them. Also, I design with the Adobe suite for my work, also not viable on Linux (I believe?). I would love to use Linux, but for my needs it’s simply a no go.This is what annoys me about all the “just use linux” comments. There are usecases where it’s simply not an option.
I’ve gotten every single Windows VST I’ve used working on Linux with WINE. Some of them require extra work (Serum and anything needing Native Access specifically), but they still work.
I’ve also tried both Ableton and FL Studio in WINE, and they both work fine as well.
Adobe suite is something I don’t have experience with, though.
Ableton working in Wine you say…? Thank you for sharing, as that would be excellent to try! :)
Yeah. I’d still recommend Ableton users try out Bitwig, though, regardless of OS. It’s a fantastic DAW that also happens to have native Linux support.
But yeah, Ableton should work fine with WINE, along with your VSTs. Make sure you use WINEASIO along with JACK. Pipewire works, but I’ve notoced that it eats up more resources than just using JACK directly, similar to using ASIO in Windows.
That’s awesome! Thank you for the rundown, I’ll save this comment for the day that I get to making the jump :) It might be a while until I can, but it would be nice to jump back over to the comfortable Linux environment again :)
No problem. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Hmm interesting. I’m a Cubase user with many steinberg plugins and some Arturia stuff. When I googled it, I didn’t seem to find much information about Linux support. But maybe I should give it a try. Thanks for sharing!
Can’t hurt! Might run into a speedbump or two where you have to do a DLL override or something, but you might get lucky and not have to do anything.
I haven’t tried Cubase, though.
Agreed, not just plugins its also Ableton Live for me! There is nothing that scratches that for me, bitwig does look promising eventually though. :)
Then on top of that wanting to develop games without learning another game engine (I’m far into a game, and can’t change engine without starting again)
And I wanna play Baldurs Gate 3 again dammit! (To be fair I think that might work and haven’t looked) :) .
I used Linux for 5 years and loved it, have a pi and a degoogled Foss phone as much as possible. I am an ally to it all, but have usecases which dictate Windows … I think it’s not unreasonable to want something to get better without binning 70℅ of why I use my computer. :)
Edit: I just learned this thread, wine might work with Ableton, this is great news :)
I’m gonna keep eating unhealthy food in large quantities, nobody should tell me what to do or what works for me…
Hey, just keep doing whatever you want. Just rest assured that virtually everybody is going to plainly and silently ignore you.
Wow, Microsoft are always so innovative! I never thought that the Win11 taskbar could get any shittier, but somehow they managed it. It’s great to see those thousands of engineers being put to good use.
Everyone: Don’t say anything sensitive or personal to an AI because it could end up in training data!
Microsoft: We’re making it easier to feed everything you do on your computer to an AI from notepad to your desktop!
[thisisfine.jpg]
just switched to Linux for the first time this week!
I’ll happily help you if needed. Hmu.
This is the problem with Linux. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well. Just the fact that you offered means you know they are probably having some issues.
I know how to use a PC and I am tech literate and I can use Linux just fine so I don’t get what your point is.
There a reason memes like this exist.
And those memes are hilarious
I’ve never claimed otherwise. I enjoy a good meme.
I have used Linux off and on for almost 20 years.
I install it, see if I can do everything I want.
Get lost in terminal hell.
Give up and uninstall it.
Until I can browse to a webpage, download a program and click on an icon and have it install and work, the OS is shit for the general user. It’s not that fucking difficult of a concept.
I mean, for most distros you should be about to install and use the OS without touching the terminal. Yeah, you may want to use it for some things (idk what you were trying to do) but it’s kind of the same thing in Windows with registry edits and such. It’s a tool and if you don’t know how to use it, you’re probably gonna get lost.
Also how is it easier to go to a webpage to download an installer instead of using a store? Even microsoft is trying to move in that direction.
I don’t want to say your experience is invalid because I definitely think Linux can improve in terms of user experience. But it’s not very helpful to just complain about stuff vaguely.
The issue you’re having is it sounds like you don’t understand package managers. On your phone you go through the Play store or Apple store, and they manage your apps and keep them updated. It’s the same for Linux. You download and install things through the package manager (using the terminal or through the Discover application, assuming your distro has that). On Windows you go to a website and download an application, and that application has to keep track of updating itself. It has to check online for updates every time it launches and then ask you to download and install it then. Package managers are much more convenient. It may take a minute to get used to, but it’s better once you do.
Yeah. People new to computers in general have an easier time using Linux than Windows power users, because the latter expects the same experience as Windows when they are using an entirely different OS.
Then, when something Windows-esque doesn’t work (like downloading software from a website), they blame Linux instead of their method.
You’re right. It’s not that difficult of a concept and luckily Linux works just like that. I will admit that Linux wasn’t always user friendly but it’s made leaps and bounds in that department. A bit less than a year ago, I decided one day to wipe my SSD completely and install Linux and I’ve been using it ever since. I’m doing everything I was doing for. Obviously this is going to depend on your specific needs but for me it’s been just fine.
No it doesn’t.
My last attempt was six months ago. Still had a few key programs in a tarball. Dow
Then there’s always the random hardware incompatibility. This last attempt it decided to flip the screen upside down on my laptop screen. Fun times…
It’s come a long way, but for the average user, it’s not anywhere near polished enough.
What kind of software do you use? I have never needed to install a tarball. Flipping the screen upside down seems like a very easily fixable problem compared to some of the stuff windows throws at you
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I’m curious what distros you have tried.
This is the problem with Windows. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well.
That’s not a problem with windows it’s a feature. Even the barely tech literate people can use it to bumble their way through to get the job done, eventually.
They don’t use it well but they still use it. They also rarely break it anymore.
Those of us who worked with these people with win 98 and XP… Shudder. They ways they screwed up the system was truly remarkable at times.
I’m extremely technically literate, build my own PCs and write my own software tools.
I don’t use Linux at home because I don’t want to fiddle. I want to sit down, open steam, and play a game.
I use Linux for many things, but my personal computer uses windows because it just works all the time.
I want to sit down, open steam, and play a game.
I’m sorry all of the Linux fan boys don’t like your comment. My main is Windows and my other PC is a Linux box.
Pointing out significant flaws that are holding the systems adoption rate back is never popular. Most of them are very techy and don’t have a clue what the average user needs. It’s a great way to get them all riled up.
I spent a few years as a process flow and bug finder for some programmers building a proprietary internal system. Then I trained non-tech savvy people on how to use the system. One of the most difficult jobs I have ever done. Bridging the gap between the two of them was brutal.
This place is a massive echo chamber. Votes don’t matter
One of us! One of us! One of us!
There are dozens of us, dozens!
Twitter sent me to Mastodon. Reddit sent me to Lemmy. Windows has sent me to Linux. These things are basically promoting the better versions of themselves by becoming shittier versions of themselves.
Same here. But I had always been on Linux since I was a kid because Ubuntu (Gnome 2 days) was very pretty compared to Windows XP to me.
More to the penguin army! Welcome
How much searching did you have to do? Be honest. Ever try to mount a network share permanently yet?
network share
Built-in to dolphin file manager 😜
I didn’t realize that was in every distro
It will be once I infiltrate all 9billion distros.
Gogogo
Literally every distro has dolphin in the repos
I was like wait they aren’t all already installed by default, then I realized you confirmed it.
It’s not automatically installed on gnome, because gnome sucks. But any KDE distro will have it, and any distro ever will have it in the repos
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As someone on Manjaro for over a year, I did have a few searches, but they were rare and mostly related to obscure things I needed.
Not even close to the “search a fix every 10 minutes” experience I was promised.
No searching at all. I got a new computer last month.
- Install open-ssh server on the old computer
- Copy the IP address of the old computer
- Paste it into Dolphin
- Copy paste everything
And how would a new user know to find this specific app in the repo? Have you ever actually searched “how to permanently mount a network dive in Linux”? I didn’t see a single one saying dolphin.
I don’t know how to mount a network drive in Windows. So what’s your point?
btw I just searched how to do it in KDE. First result is a Reddit thread explaining how to do it in Dolphin.
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I did, and it was fairly straightforward according to the documentation I found. This was a couple of years ago but I’m pretty sure I needed to figure out how to use nano, then type some magic words into fstab along with the IP and password, and I haven’t had to mess with it ever since.
… You guys might shit on it, but that’s incredibly smart on their part. Ten years or more of that button being there and now suddenly something else replaces it, just imagine the amount of people accidentally hitting the button and being introduced to copilot. This was a very deliberate change.
It’s Smart as in, MLM scheme smart. Not honorable, just smart. Like a thief that is clever about not leaving fingerprints.
That’s exactly why we shit on it
I’m pretty sure there’s a term for it. Google did it with shopping and images, Instagram changed the home button with some advertising thing (dont remember the exact details).
Dark pattern.
Phishing?
Nobody said it wasn’t deliberate. It’s still shitty af.
And the thing failed the things I asked it to do so far. It’s not very helpful with actually getting things done.
That’s why there are 3 of them now. One there and two in the corners of the start menu popup
If being an asshole is smart, I’d rather be dumb.
Dark pattern smart.
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Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people shitting… on Linux.
Linux is not even the one doing anything wrong but people gotta rag on whoever recommends it as an alternative. This is getting more annoying than however annoying they say Linux users are.
edit: Just to make clear because some folks aren’t getting it, this is not an invitation to argue about how you feel about Linux and Linux users. I. don’t. fucking. care. I don’t even use Linux. Take it to someone who cares.
Windows Key+D
Press it again to restore all apps to foreground.
Just press windows+d bro.
I forgot that the button exists.
Win+d also redirects to copilot
I hope that’s a joke or else I’m gonna be so mad
Nah, obviously you launch Copilot with Ctrl+C.
So you’re just out here trying to start a riot, eh?
No you do that with Win+R.
and not Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T
Obviously it’s right mouse button for quick access
Or Win+m
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You can still re-enable it in the taskbar settings. Personally I like asking an AI to do stuff, so I like the Copilot icon in my taskbar, BUT NOT ON THE FREAKING BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER GODDAMMIT THAT’S FOR LIKE NOTIFICATIONS
AND NOW NOTIFICATIONS GO OVER COPILOT BUT NOT QUICK SETTINGS FOR SOME REASON AND IF YOU BRING UP QUICK SETTINGS IT SHIFTS TO THE LEFT AND HIDES NOTIFICATIONS??
at least I won’t accidentally hide my desktop while clicking copilot in a place where it shouldn’t have been
except oh no signing in to unlock copilot doesn’t even fucking worktime to grind on my giant arch migration checklist and hunt for a good foobar2000 alternative which i’ll likely never finish
For a Foobar2000 alternative have you seen Deadbeef . It doesn’t replace everything but has the same sort of modular interface.
I’m personally more of a fan of Audacious
Also worth noting that foobar2000 works in WINE.
Audacious only has the playlist and library stuff, from what I can see.
Wining it is still going to stick out of place and the external window plugin thing I want is probably gonna be weird.
I’ve actually asked about alternatives in the EndeavourOS forum and talked about it there:
I just found out about DeaDBeeF. Unfortunately, it’s not what I’ll be using.
It is quite a one-to-one match to foobar2000! It has the same modularity and customization. However, the plugin ecosystem is nowhere as big. There’s no Coverflow plugin.
And there was a lyrics plugin, forked after an earlier plugin stopped development. However, the developer quit after decreasing passion coincided with the DeadBeeF developer removing the already finished Russian translation in the wake of the Russian war for whatever reason. Needless to say, I am not comfortable with it both feature-wise and ethics-wise.Strawberry and all Clementine (or should I say, Amarok?)-likes don’t strike my fancies. They seem to be in pretty good hands, but I just don’t like the side-tab layout (plus the aforementioned problem with lyrics). Amarok seems to have switched their design, and since I plan on using KDE either way, if the usage is good enough and I can’t find anything better, I’ll either use Amarok or Sayonara, which also seems promising.
For me, there are 2 on the top left and too right of the start menu pop up and they don’t even look the same. Whoever is in charge of UI/UX needs to be shot. Holy shit. Windows just feels like a taped together heap of shit. The competition is way better.
Holy shit. Windows just feels like a taped together heap of shit.
I thought that was pretty much an open secret since Windows ME. As a begrudging Windows user who loves Linux infinitely more, my impression has been that they’re just dialing that shit to 11 (hah) while they complete their transition to being the high-margin SAAS empire known as AzureCopilotGithubOfficeGamepassSoft. I kind of doubt that Windows revenue is even worth labeling on their pie charts anymore.
It felt less taped together (in the UI sense, anyway) before Windows 8, honestly. Mainly because they didn’t do semiannual or annual (or whatever the schedule is now) feature updates.
Windows 8 was… Windows 8.
Windows 10 never felt finished, especially whenever they shifted the UI design between updates. Some things would follow the new look, while others wouldn’t.
And now they’re repeating that with Windows 11.
Windows 7 was alright, except for nearly every aspect of its 64-bit infrastructure. But it was also basically a $100 patch for Vista that took 2.5 years to make so they could put that house fire in their rear view mirror while there were still people inside. Oh, and probably to fuck up government work for the better part of a decade.
Yeah, it definitely wasn’t perfect, but I was primarily focusing on the UI since that’s what the others in this thread were focusing on.
I personally really like StartAllBack. I just want a clean classic Windows experience.
Not sure if it’ll help with OP’s rage issues (I skipped over the all-caps and punctuation-free stuff), but I’ve long been a fan of Open Shell. Makes the Windows experience extremely customizable.
What’s wrong with foobar?
It has no version for Linux.
WHAT.
I swear foobar is what I used to use… I’m having the memory bad.
Well, you could maybe Wine it, but it’s still going to stick out of place and the external window plugin thing I want is probably gonna be weird. You may have also confused it with Guarapiranga.
Naw, I’m pretty sure I just have it confused with when I was switching between windows and Linux a lot. I vaguely remember going crazy trying to find a decent player on Linux to match. I think I went with Amarok.
I’ve used ncmpcpp and more recently Cantata to replace foobar, not as much customization but it gets a lot of stuff right for me.
They’re signaling that you don’t need a desktop anymore, only chat bot. Your device will be a kiosk where you ask Microsoft for favours.
Linux exists people, without copilot using your information for training data and if you game, has Valve releasing updates like crazy for proton making it easier and easier to use Linux for gaming. The only thing I use Windows for is GeForce now as the windows and Mac apps are the only way for me to play 1440p 120fps with their service.
Good beginner distros: pop_os, Ubuntu, Linux mint, Nobara or fedora, Garuda, Manjaro, solus, zorin. The possibilities are really endless. Just take your pick, make a bootable USB and try it out.
