Outrage over killing of Ryan Gainer, shot three times on Saturday, as sheriff denounced for defending deputies’ use of lethal force
Archived version: https://archive.ph/50wkz
I think shooting someone trying to attack you with a hoe generally counts as self-defense, but I don’t understand why
“The use of a Taser in this situation with the amount of time or the use of pepper-spray would not have been something we would have been able to react to quick enough. Ultimately we have to stop this problem … law enforcement officers are not required to be hit over the head with something. What happens when they get incapacitated? … The deputies followed through with what their training protocols are.”
This seems like exactly the situation tasers are meant for. Even if attempting to use a taser would have been riskier for the deputies, IMO accepting a reasonable amount of risk is part of their job. “Take the risk of confronting an aggressive teenager, but not the further risk of attempting to subdue him non-lethally” isn’t where I would have the line drawn.
That statement also admits that this is in line with protocol, Idk who in their right mind would call a protocol acceptable where 3 guys show up to a distress call with guns and can’t manage to deescalate one kid with a hoe without loss of life.
The question I’m asking is:
Why is there no time for a taser or pepper spray? Those should release just as quickly and easily as a firearm. Moreover, I’m rather confident I could take someone coming at me with a gardening tool, and I’m no police officer. Sure, don’t risk a physical altercation, though at what point did that situation warrant the use of a firearm?
And a taser holds little real risk for the officer firing it. Hell, even a gun can have issues.
But in your first sentence you clarified this is okay. No change will happen until you, and every other American, change that thinking.
You don’t understand why a cop killed a kid in a country that will do backflips in order to find justification for said violence?
It’s only one small step from advocacy of a taser to advocacy of a gun.
Tasers are not as effective as a gun. If you are fighting for your life you take no chances.
And if this were a story about some random person defending themselves I might agree, but it’s not. It’s about a police officer who supposedly has the physical fitness and training to take the extra risk of using less than lethal options.
They say that tasers are not reliable. Plus police also have guns, so if a person with a hoe knocks you out (because taser failed), it can get possession of the gun and can start killing others.
They say that tasers are not reliable.
That says they shouldn’t have tasers.
it can
“It”?
get possession of the gun and can start killing others.
That says they shouldn’t have guns.
“It” is obviously a typo.
The police should have tasers for the case when a person is aggressive but does not have a weapon, like a haw.
In places like UK it is indeed makes sense for police not to have guns on police . But in US, population has lots of guns, so, it is not realistic.
A taser would have been enough. That 15 year old kid wouldn’t be able to shrug off a taser.
Tasers can fail to go off, miss, not attach, or even be dodged besides some people not being affected. If somebody has what is effevely a knife on a pole and they’re that close it’s one and done. The most effective force to use is a gun.
Pull out both and position taser like flashlight?
Pull taser out immediately to reduce time drawing it if their is slight indication of violence.
I’m not sure someone running at you with a gardening tool counts as fighting for your life.
Police around the world manage not to shoot people in these situations.
It was basically a knife of a pole. It’s a long reach weapon and most gun instructors will tell you even at 21 feet a hand to hand weapon may have the advantage over a gun. Best not to have potential weapons at the ready when confronting police. This is all armchair quarterbacking at this point anyway. It was a heat of the moment reaction.
american cop is such a wuss, southeastasian cop handle crazy machete guy without even touching their gun.
This is a tragic story and I’m against police brutality as much as anyone, but it feels a little sensationalist to word a news article title this way. “Holding a gardening tool” makes me picture someone who was just minding his own business and planting flowers, but a quick google search shows him trying to attack the officers with a garden hoe.
Shame on The Guardian for muddying the waters to try to farm clicks from a terrible situation.
Yet almost every other police force in the world would’ve handled this without shooting him…
Agreed. It’s a serious problem, but the discussion gets so muddied by websites with low integrity running headlines that are intentionally dishonest, just for clicks. They know they’ll get more outrage and $$ by wording it this way, and it’s gross behavior.
How many people across the web do you think saw this headline and assumed, like I did before looking into it, that this was another case of police mistaking some harmless object for a gun? Probably lots.
Glad to see TPM’s got reasonable takes :)
Thanks. It’s rare that I even comment on stuff that I know is going to be a divisive topic, because people get so worked up and it’s hard to have a human conversation.
It was a hula hoe - basically a stick. It was not the kind of hoe with a blade. They killed a kid that they knew was in a mental health crisis for running at them with a stick.
They could have tackled him. They could have tased him. They could have pepper sprayed him. They could have tried entering the home more gently and used de-escalation practices like most medical professionals use. If a patient in crisis picks up an IV pole and threatens hospital workers with it, their response is not to shoot the patient three times.
This is an American cop problem, period.
This sucks, y’all
1st frame should be back up and get ready to taze.
It is not possible to know when you are confronted with coming at you holding a tool in a threatening manner whether or not he’s autistic or “having a mental health crisis.” An officer cannot afford to sit and wait to see if the attacker strikes him in the skull first.
I’m not saying this couldn’t have been handled better and it should have been - but I can understand how it happens. Taking a reasonable amount of risk has to be balanced with instantaneous assessment of whether this person who’s on a rampage is about to strike you or a family member in a lethal way. This may not be the happiest outcome, but people need to stop instantly criticizing every move the police make.
If YOU were the officer standing there having to make a snap judgment, you very likely would do the same thing, even if you think you wouldn’t.
Why were the officers even there?
A nation whose only recourse to it citizenry having mental health crises is sending men to shoot them is a damned one.
Take some that change you’re clanging 'round to buy local sheriffs F-18s and equip nurses and counselors with bearsuits and a living wage.
Then why is the US the only country where this kind of thing happens so regularly that every time a story like this comes out, I have to wonder if it’s about a new one or the last one? Cops shot a guy in his backyard for holding a cell phone.
American police are on a literal hair trigger for lethal violence, especially against minorities, and most especially against African Americans. They are taught that their lives are in constant danger, and their use of force regulations are ridiculously loose. There’s even an entire training course for law enforcement called “killology.”
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standing there having to make a snap judgment, you very likely would do the same thing
If a police officer is as likely as me to freak out and fuck up in an emergency, they don’t have the required training or character to do their job.
No, I would not do the same thing if I were an officer. I just feel like this needs to be said. Not everyone is seeking to preserve their own life at the expense of others.
I’m sick of cops acting like they are supposed to do this. It’s in direct opposition to the reason we pay them hazard pay.
