If so, was it polled somewhere?
So I was just looking through literature.cafe a bit, and came across this excellent comment chain by Janvier. It outlines the history and culture of Hexbear, and makes a very solid argument for defederating them.
TL;DR- Don’t defederate Hexbear because they’re a bunch of genocide-apologist authoritarians. Defederate them because they’re annoying, and will burn out your moderators.
Hexbear recently federated with sh.itjust.works, I don’t know if it was polled on your side or what. But on Hexbear’s side there was a thread to discuss it.
Fuck the tankies over at Hexbear
Sucks for you guys. They caused nothing but trouble when they were still federated with Blahaj.
After so many of us complained about how they were being dicks and many on the instance weren’t feeling comfortable, hexbear decided to defederate from us first since they somehow said it wasn’t safe for their LGBT members to be on it.
Funny enough a few days later a new account started posting across different lemmy instances for days about how the Blahaj instance was anti trans and that the admin was too. Our Admin is openly trans :/
The whole argument started because the user said everything had to be political and wouldn’t stop insulting others who said they didn’t want to have every post on Blahaj to turn political.
It was just too perfect timing how a few days after hexbear defedarated for somehow saying the pro LGBT instance was anti-LGBT, that we got a brand new account attacking trans members while sayin they were anti-trans.
Enjoy your new people.
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I don’t mind the general hexbear ideology in itself. Sure. You do you.
But, damn, I see more than a few of its members just being obnoxious.
I voted against it fwiw
They added us to their whitelist.
Yes and its very very annoying.
yeah people complaining about nothing gets real old
Opinion of one of the admins regarding hexbear, just so you guys know where they stand:
In my view, the hexbear community is actually a positive force on this platform. They are frequently abrasive, but they ultimately have the potential to contribute to what we are building here. They are extremely active and some of them are quite intelligent. But they’ve also become accustomed to a privileged position on their own walled-in platform, and they need to be reminded that their views are considered ver extreme by the average person.
Hexbear is inevitable
I see a small corner of the lemmyverse…
I see your instance…
…alone…And a lot of defederations…
Jesus that’s a lot of defederations…
They’re just misunderstood. Uh, yeah, misunderstood. That’s it.
Just mention them once, sixty or so will be by promptly to “help” you “understand.”
…Then the rest drop by to see how much of a mess they can make of the relatively calm and sensible clusterfuck already present, because every question or comment absolutely must be met with a raucous cacophony of condescending crap.
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All over this thread
🔍
Depending on how you browse Lemmy, you have to look at the user’s profile to see the instance they come from and yes there’s a whole bunch of hexbear users in this discussion. Although most are easy to spot since they have their pronouns in their username, some also don’t.
Federation seems to be iffy sometimes. Maybe thats the issue?
I think this is just a matter of imageboard culture that just can’t / won’t mesh with general internet civility.
Leave Hexbear users to their spaces. My hands are washed.
Leave Hexbear users to their spaces.
Normally I’d be inclined to agree, but the problem is they don’t stay in those spaces; they regularly invade other instances en masse, harass its community members and pollute it with pro-Russia & China propaganda and genocide denial, then feign innocence and use their high percentage of LGBTQ+ users as a shield. It’s really fucked up, and it’s happening in all the major instances in the 'verse. I mean, you’re right, they’re not gonna mesh and aren’t meshing well with other instances, but that’s solely because they go to other instances and deliberately start shit. We are leaving them to their spaces; they just aren’t reciprocating.
general internet civility
I honestly do not know what this looks like
Either everyone calling each other hard r n-bombs, or everyone walking on pins and needles making sure that they don’t say something against the will of the zeitgeist.
Get fucked.
Please understand that I’m being completely sincere when I say that, judging from your post history, you should seriously consider taking a break from the internet to deal with your anger issues. When you spend your time lashing out at other people because of the instance they use, complaining about protests that are trying to prevent the implementation of policies which contribute to climate change, and hoping that other countries get destroyed by nuclear weapons because you don’t like their leaders, the only thing you’re accomplishing is increasing your chances of getting a heart attack
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Yeah it seems like they can’t go two posts without some bigotry. It’s pretty disappointing and awful
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Do I seem angry to you?
It’s alarming how I can tell when I’ve left Hexbear by the ableism and slurs.
I don’t know y’all considered crazy a slur. Sorry
Edit: considered not confused
You really don’t have to come to the defense of a post your mods removed for being bad.
You can still hey fucked you genocide denying fuckers.
Idk if you personally deny them, but you know what you call a table full of 9 Nazis and 1 guy joins them I’m sure.
The saying is “9 people eating and 1 Nazi joins them” the point is that allowing the Nazi to eat with them means they can be amiable to that Nazi and are Nazis themselves. Can you prove there is even one nazi on hexbear?
Owning the libs with ableist slurs
And you claim, hexbear users are the one misbehaving…
Them misbehaving doesn’t prevent the others misbehaving…
Just accept that it’s fine to be rude on the internet, that theres nothing you can do to stop it, and both sides can let this rest. Damn
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buy us all dinner first
man, hexbears are so rude all the time for no reason!
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come on don’t censor the goddess of love thats just cringe
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Volcel police
No, tax investigation, special devision for cyber crime.
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Thankfully. Y’all can seeth, I’m here for it.
Lol I blocked the most annoying posters from hexbear on this thread and now there’s hardly any comments. I think we should put them in time out. Like defederate for 15 days. if they keep brigading, another 15 days. I don’t really want to defederate, but I hate this kind of brigading.
This is such bullshit. Just saw the announcement that we aren’t going to defederate from hexbear. Why weren’t we given a say in this?
I appear to be out of the loop. What’s wrong with hexbear? I’m not familiar with the instance.
They’re just an annoying bunch of wannabe communists who sound incredibly smug and post a ton of stickers in comments. Having said that I’ve moved to lemm.ee when lemmy.world defeterated from hexbear.
Wannabe communists
There’s a lot to unpack in that one. First of all, how do you even gatekeep being a communist? Surely you don’t hold a degree in Marxist-Leninist thought? Nor are you a hexbear yourself.
Or perhaps since you have this perception that we are all petite bourgeoisie (mostly white) in the imperialist core that we can’t actually be communists (ignoring how paradoxical that is)
Perhaps communism in your mind is only for the “orient” and global south. Those in the “West” must just be play acting.
When you guys mention the imperial core, what are you talking about? DC? Hollywood? Wall Street? Brussels? London? Paris? Berlin? The Hague? Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
“imperial core” isn’t a phrase we made up. It refers to World Systems Theory, a theory of international relations invented by a guy named Immanuel Wallerstein which argues that imperial “Core” countries (think the traditional “developed” or “first world” countries. Mainly the US and Europe) have a particular extractive, colonial relationship with “Periphery” countries (think poor, raw material exporting, rentier states like Kyrgyzstan or Nigeria).
Then there are semi-periphery countries which are still tied into the imperial core in some way, but have enough sway economically and geopolitically to kind of stand on their own. They have a different kind of relationship to the imperial core, compared to the periphery (these would be the BRICS countries, largely).
That’s a gross over simplification, but hopefully that answers your question.
Edit: Here’s a really good explanation of World Systems Theory that goes into more depth
Wasn’t aware of this framework, thank you for taking the time to explain it :)
No problem!
Thanks for engaging in gold faith!
To be fair, colonialism is a human trait and it’s been proven in every large society time and time again. You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.
It is inevitable, humans are destined for this. It’s unfortunate but it’s what we do.
That’s just the propaganda you’ve been fed. The world doesn’t need to be xenophobic or exploitative. These are learnt behaviors.
No man these are facts. Proven, hard irrefutable facts.
yeah but the thing is other countries’ policies didn’t inspire apartied and the nazis and their holocaust.
the US’s exterminationist and segregationalist The US did those thing
Hitler wrote in his diary how good america was at genociding its undesireables, and took it and ran with it
The United States: world leader in being the absolute fucking worst thing in human history since 1619
But that’s kind of my point. The CCP engages in almost identical policies and political strategy. It’s just under a different banner with a different mascot.
You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.
I don’t think any non-Western country has enslaved a continent, refused to pay reparations for enslaving an entire continent, and continue to plunder an entire continent of its resources.
Japan, China, Persian empire, Egypt, Spain, US, UK, Cambodia, et al.
History is nasty, our goal should be to learn from it and not repeat it.
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It’s another term for ‘the West’ effectively, so the US and Western Europe.
I genuinely would like to understand what you guys at hexbear are about but every time I poke my head into that instance you guys are “dunking” every other instance with language nobody else understands. It’s very alienating.
Lol that’s fair. We’ve developed a pretty insular culture over the past three years and I can see how it’s hard to decipher.
you guys are also like, just huge dicks without provocation. like all the fucken time. 99% of what i see from hexbear users is either condescension or outright hostility.
Honestly your best bet is probably to do some reading first, unfortunately. A lot of Hexbear dialect is that way because it’s tied to concepts that come from books and thinkers we’re broadly familiar with.
If you’re more into video stuff you could try this guy. I think he’s pretty approachable.
Actually if you went into the megathreads and asked most people would probably give you suggestions too. We are fiesty but in my experience we also like to be helpful to people with questions.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/channel/UCGog4JPn5-W3_XIKccENysg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
We’re literally just communists. Read any introductory text to communism and 99% of what we say will make sense in context.
I genuinely would like to understand what you guys at hexbear are about
Well, I’d be more than happy to have a good faith discussion with you. No dunking, I promise 🙏
You’ve caught me going into a busy Labor Day weekend but sure, I’ll think up some questions to ask.
If you ask good faith questions and give context for why “Hey, I’m a liberal and I don’t understand X could you explain what you mean?”
You WILL get excellent engagement and people will give you very good answers
its easy, and if you genuinely want to learn give it a shot
New tagline dropped @[email protected]
Seriously though you are more than welcome to ask, I would recommend the news mega. If you ask questions in gold faith there’s a wealth of users willing to interact with you
To be clear in the dunking threads folks are not usually engaging in good faith with us. When I was on another server and replied with actual questions to stuff everyone was incredibly nice to me and explained stuff super well. Can agree though that folks can see dunking as alientating. I promise though if you can get past that it’s one of the friendliest communities I’ve found on the web.
The imperial core is the countries that have been most involved in the imperialist plunder of other nations, so that would be the US, Canada, UK, France, Belgium, Germany, etcetera
Don’t forget China, Tibet?
Tibet was an oppressive theocratic slave society whose people China liberated.
Woo boy provide me a source for this one
The Imperial Core was clearly on Coruscant.
RIP
did it blow up tho
You know how any time there’s a map where it colors countries who vote on UN resolutions, or countries where you can be thrown in jail for being poor, etc etc etc etc, you know how its usually a very similar map with US Europe and western allies on one side, and the entire rest of the world (the other 6.5 billion people) on the other?
Yeah, that teeny group that seems to always get its way controlling global politics is the imperial core.
Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
They prefer to be called The International Community™
And occasionally the “We make the rules, you take the orders” rules-based order.
Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
Probably start with where all the giant battleships come from: https://www.businessinsider.com/magnitude-of-us-naval-dominance-2013-11
Why does the USA need all those battleships if they’re not doing imperialism? Are they just cosmetic battleships? Just for shits and giggles?
They asked a question in good faith, and have since gotten it clarified. No need to be hostile.
I was answering his question, not trying to be hostile. I did not insult him at all. Just voicing my opinion.
Ok, so the imperial core is in DC to you, got it. The previous reply is more thoughtful than that.
Another user already explained world systems theory, but there’s also the school of global historical materialism, that analyses the relationship and structure of the imperial core/triad and the periphery/global south. Samir Amin was a leading figure in that, he also coined the term “Eurocentrism”. You can find quite a few recordings of his lectures for free on YouTube, or pirate his books (he’s dead now, so it’s not like he’d get the money anyways).
Imperial core = CCPs geopolitical enemies
I’ve grown up under a communist government in a socialist republic. So while I have no degree in Marxism-Leninism, I can assure you that all of my schooling was infused with it. Same goes for most of popular culture. I don’t despise communism, as is often the case with people like me, the idea is noble, if utopian. The ideology, like all ideologies, is scary for its intolerance and disregard of human nature. I will therefore gatekeep any pure ideolog, just to save my own faith in humanity.
I’ve grown up under a communist government in a socialist republic…
Huh? That’s a very roundabout way of describing a communist state. Where do you come from specifically? You can count communist states on your fingertips.
ideology, like all ideologies, is scary for its intolerance and disregard of human nature…
I don’t think that’s what the word “ideology” means. Also it’s dangerous and unproductive to off-handedly remark on “human nature.” It’s a bad faith psuedoscientific buzzword that’s rooted in uncontextualized historical analysis. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
I will therefore gatekeep any pure ideolog, just to save my own faith in humanity.
Again, I’m not quite sure what this means. I think you’re conflating a lot of things here that just don’t make sense and I dont want to make any assumptions about you. No community can ever be immune to reactionary politics, but thats not the same as rejecting “pure ideology”
If you put down the thesaurus and actually think about things you will perhaps start to understand. I grew up in former Czechoslovakia until my adulthood under the rule of the communist party until we overthrew them in 1989. The effects of that time are still with me. The human nature that came to light during communist rule would make your hair stand on end. All in pursuit of ideology. You can’t comprehend what you’re advocating for further than some utopian theory you read.
What? You have nothing to say now? I would appreciate if you stated your position to my replies to you.
Gonna be real, your smug levels are pretty high right now yourself.
My apologies, I was generalising. I’ve had perfectly normal interactions with hexbear users, but I also saw a bunch of very circlejerky threads populated by hexbear users which I found unbearable (or should it be unhexbearable?).
Can you give direct links? No one can discount your feelings but without any examples or evidence then we can’t understand.
Thank you for your open minded approach. Obviously I don’t save posts or comments that annoy me, but now I see one of those as a response to my comment (large gif/jpg with no text). Earlier today I saw a post about brigading that was stupid, but I’m not throwing all hexbears into the same basket, a bunch of the comments were completely nuts. I couldn’t find it again, instead I found this one: https://hexbear.net/post/502637 Again, it’s not a crime, people can circlejerk however they want. What really annoys me is when I come across a post where I’m interested in reading people’s opinions one the subject and the comments are filled with stickers. Strangely enough no other community does that.
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We’re a liberal instance and some people don’t like that.
You’re not liberals, liberals are centerists, you guys are far, far to the left. Which is fine, but let’s not confuse political terms.
we’re centrists. we hold the political center between anarchism and Marxism-Leninism.
anyone i’ve ever met claiming to be a centrist was in reality uninformed politically and using the label as a shield for their similarly uninformed takes.
That’s the joke. There is no center in the west. As the general political spectrum is inherently right.
we’re centrists. we hold the political center between anarchism and Marxism-Leninism.
Is that an inside joke? Because outside of Hexbear and maybe 1930s Catalonia, “between anarchism and Leninism” is extreme left.
Is that an inside joke?
Answering genuinely, yeah it is lol
That being said, what is considered the “political center” varies a lot from place to place, a lot more than just 1930s Catalonia.
Thank you for being genuinely helpful, unlike your comrades who insulted and posed.
You do see how many of us are being treated though right? Some of us are going in hot, but most are interacting reasonably, then getting slammed with bad faith complaints and accusations,
Its incredibly frustrating, I’m sure you can relate
who insulted?
We’ve moved the Overton Window. Sorry I don’t make the rules.
According to fascists, sure. Just because fascists call us extreme left doesn’t mean we aren’t actually centrists.
No actually, we’re a Hillary Clinton fansite, you may not be but I’m #StillWithHer
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No actually we’re centrists. Maybe you’re just far right?
☝🏽 We see some good points in communism and anarchism, without veering to either extreme.
Liberals are right wing though
It’s a bit within Hexbear. Something about the old subreddit and “I’m the only true leftist here” discourse.
They were very obviously being facetious…
It’s technically a leftist website, but only due to me: The One True Leftist. The rest of them are libs
I had to upvote I’m crying yall are funny
I don’t give a shit about your politics. You’re all toxic assholes that just make the internet annoying.
you’re being kind of a toxic asshole rn ngl
Wow what’s up with this immediate hostility? The other user was being completely civil.
No need to jump in a conversation fists swinging.
PRODUCTIVITY CHECK: Are you typing this from a public workplace, classroom, dinner table, library, queue, etc? If so, GET YOUR ASS BACK IN GEAR!
If you’re not posting at work, what are you even doing?
spoiler
The internet should be annoying for you specifically
Tough to have decades of indoctrination questioned, isn’t it?
You’re a bunch of 4Chan users cosplaying as leftists and some people don’t like that.
Drats! The one true leftist has figured out our ruse! For three whole years we’ve been meticulously crafting a safe space for queer and marginalized people to speak freely without condescension and infantilization from privileged folks, all as a bit, to eventually confuse users of a FOSS Reddit alternative. You got us. Pat yourself on the back. I can’t believe you figured it out.
Yeah, 4chan, known for being vehemently opposed to racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, and all other forms of bigotry. You can tell we’re all 4chan users because of how we’re literally the opposite of 4chan users in basically every way.
Right, just like how the Nazis were really socialists because they had “socialist” in the name.
Your actions speak much louder than your words, and from what I’ve seen, you all love to spout facist and authoritarian ideals. Funny how you all bust out the concern trolling about minority groups and bigotry when called out on your actions, yet never defend these ideals in organic conversations where the topics actually come up.
yet never defend these ideals in organic conversations where the topics actually come up.
did you not see the thread on active most of yesterday where we were en masse screaming at liberals for their conditional support for trans people
out of all things to say about us that is certainly one of them, given that we’ve mass purged our own userbase multiple times over these issues
we have been on this site for three years before federation with the same strict anti-bigotry culture since the beginning. I wish you guys could realize how fucking wild conspiracies like this sound like to us. Like we were only pretending to be gay marxists to ourselves for three years lmao
We’re 4chan trolls who have been running a running joke where we refuse to tolerate racism, misogyny, transphobia. We did it all in isolation for 3 years, so we could show up here, requiring lots of actual development work to re-merge and federate, as a bit.
This is what liberals need to believe to continue daily life free of mental interruptions.
And it would be so much easier to not give a shit about any of that. You really don’t get anything for standing up for the powerless (aside from the fact that our trans posters are among the most powerful ever known).
yet never defend these ideals in organic conversations where the topics actually come up.
Because we definitely don’t have multiple different queer communities with >3 years of posts in them and a weekly queer specific megathread every week for 3 years and we definitely didn’t recently onboard r/traaa too and we definitely don’t have a modteam that is over 50% trans and enby,
We also definitely don’t have a site wide culture of mocking and bullying transphobes internally and we definitely didn’t have a trans admin bully all the power posters into reading Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink and Blue 3 years ago in the site’s early days
Fascism is only a vibe, and the vibe is “something CmdrShepard disagrees with”
Right, just like how the Nazis were really socialists because they had “socialist” in the name.
The whole thing about that was that the Nazis didn’t do anything socialist, and in fact the term privatization was invested to describe their economic policies. Hexbear acts against LGBT hate, racism, ableism, etc., so this analogy is a non-starter.
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It’s literally the only place on the internet that I, as a Trans woman, feel completely safe. The ONLY people who I know 100% will go to bat for me even when it is inconvenient.
yet never defend these ideals in organic conversations where the topics actually come up.
You’re a fucking moron.
we are about as far from 4chan as you can get, we’re just rude to losers like you who equate queer liberationist leftists with incel pedophile racists on 4chan
Go fuck yourself!
(P.S. This is why we’re rude sometimes, absolutely go and fuck yourself)
Ahh the one true leftist is here! Gatekeeping.
How are we like 4chan users? We filter slurs and ban users who try to engage in hate speech. We offer content/NSFW warnings. We don’t doxx or send death threats and ban those who try.
I want to know why you looked at Hexbear and saw 4chan.
?
I’ve never used that website, I’d imagine most hexbear users haven’t. We’re actually reddit refugees from 3 years ago, thank you very much 😤.
Not like that’s much better lol.
There’s no cosplay here, I can promise you that. I’m bi and communist, don’t know about other users. I know we have a sizeable amount of trans users as well. Pretty sure none of us are cosplaying as left of LGBT.
We’re to the left of you. Cope. Seethe. Communism or barbarism, and it’s pretty clear what you’re into
You got us, all of our theory reading groups, real life mutual aid, and threads about loving our trans comrades have all been part of an elaborate 3-year long running gag to trick you, the main character.
Comments like this have really shown me that liberals don’t actually care about beliefs at all (hexbear having diametrically opposed beliefs to 4chan). They only care about tone.
Understood. And I know there are groups on pretty much every instance that ruin things for everyone else. I don’t want to judge any full instance from the actions of a minority.
Lots of tankies from what I’m seeing, they’re the “alt-left” if you will, they believe in just as much weird stuff as the alt-right but are on the left side of the spectrum… Heck they end up meeting on many things…
Could you provide an example of Hexbears agreeing with the alt-right about something specific? I think a lot of people conflate “disagreeing with the liberal consensus” with “thinking a MAGA thing” when they’re really pretty different.
They are pro Russia.
Hexbear is very categorically not pro Russia, we’re just not pro West
I can’t hear you, the Arms Deliverys to Ukraine are to loud!
Fuck you people. You are pro China and Russia.
We are pro China, we are not pro Russia
Same thing.
Taiwan is a Country
you’re literally pro-nazi and you’re complaining about us lmao
Lmao go further supporting genocides.
When being “not pro west” means not analyzing the conflict but simply adopting the same point of view as Russian propaganda just because Ukraine is supported by the west then yeah, you’re pro Russia.
What are you talking about? We have a huge incredibly active news mega that does analysis daily. The fact that we are as sceptical of western media as we are of russian is a good thing. You shouldn’t just uncritically swallow state department propaganda. You should investigate claims made, instead of just accepting them.
What is the Russian propaganda that we’re repeating in regard to Ukraine?
Why can’t you see the difference? We see the west and Nato as having propagated and profited off of this conflict. Russia is guilty as well as Ukraine in fanning the flames of war. But peace is a far better alternative to war and far better than flooding the area with weapons. Weapons that will continue to do damage long after hostility ends. Pro Russia How?
When being “not pro west” means not analyzing the conflict
Just like you analyzed our news megathreads from the last year to make this assessment?
It just fucking baffles me how people from other instances feel so comfortable talking shit straight from their ass. I just don’t understand the mentality. It’s fucking slimy. You can just do that shit and you don’t feel dirty?
Go into the news mega and post your “analysis” we would love to see it
No thanks, I’m not into brigading :)
Why do you think it is impossible to just dislike two things at once?
Mostly about China and North Korea.
Alt right and alt left both deny Uyghur camps, and think Kim Jong Un is pretty awesome.
In my experience alt right folks are pretty anti China, to the point where that is often the reason they oppose the Ukraine war, as it is dividing the attention of the Christian west from the rising, menacing Tigers that threaten white society.
Hexbears are often skeptical of Adrian Zenz who is usually the source of claims about China. Most that I’ve seen acknowledge that there are camps (China openly says it is running programs to deradicalize separatists and fundamentalists in the region), but disagree that they are as bad as western media depicts them, and would probably argue that western nations are concern trolling about the issue regardless because it is easy to question whether American foreign policy is motivated by concern for Muslims. Genuinely curious, who is an alt-right guy who doesn’t think there are camps in Xinjiang? I’ve never encountered a pro-Chinese reactionary.
As to Korea I thought MAGA types just memed about Kim Jong Un because Trump sort of got along with him. Hexbears think that the Korean War was bad and that Korea is acting predictably given that a nuclear power is constantly threatening them with annihilation. There are a variety of positions in Hexbear on the DPRK though, and I can’t really account for all of them, but I think they arise out of a genuine anti-imperial and anti-war sentiment, and a healthy doze of skepticism of western narratives of a state enemy. I don’t think you could say that for the alt right.
Alt right and Liberals both hate China
Trump derangement syndrome is all too real and the proof is how liberals reacted to him trying to end the Korean war.
Same thing with Afghanistan.
Alt Right and alt left both deny the existence of the tooth fairy
Last I checked the alt right believes them same claims about the world that dems do in terms of the supposed camps, they just think they are good because the alt right hates muslims
You guys and the MAGA types seem to have very similar views on the Russia/Ukraine situation at the moment.
Could you be more specific?
I think, for example, that most alt-right types oppose the war either because of chauvinistic beliefs about American boys and American blood and treasure being spent on foreigners, or because they would like to work together with Russia to counter China and think a war with them hurts the white struggle against the eastern hordes. No one on hexbear would defend either of those positions.
It needs to be more specific than “both of you are against continuing the war.” Just like it wouldn’t be fair for me to accuse you of being alt- right because you and them both agree that there weren’t WMDs in Iraq and that that invasion was sold on false pretenses. You might both technically agree but it would be missing the point.
It’s theories about how spheres of influence work, that Russia has a right to take over Ukraine, or at least override it politically. Very much similar to Kissinger’s Great power politics in the days of the USSR. It’s somewhat different than the Russian right which is their divine right to Empire, over the Ukrainians and the Poles and Slavic countries in general. The ideologues Ivan Ilyin and Karl Schmidt influence that part. But notably, both parts believe that there’s a place that Russia must dominate in Europe, and that other great powers must not interfere there. Leftists also are influenced by these theories, especially when they remember the reaches of the Iron Curtain far into Central Europe. The USSR had a history of intervening into the politics of its satellite states. Notably in Hungary when there were democratic protests, they sent in tanks to quell the uprising. This theory echoes in 2014 when the Ukrainians changed their government, and Russia invades and annexes Crimea. Many on the far left and far right see the massive protests as creeping American influence that does not belong in the region. They fear NATO expansion as it is a threat to Russia; In the west it’s Russia itself, and in Russia, it’s Russian greatness in Empire.
I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand. Liberals don’t believe that countries exert influence on other countries around them? You think Joe Biden objects to the concept of spheres of influence? You brought up Kissinger, you don’t think US foreign policy is operating under the logic of realpolitik? I’m not sure what the alternative is to believing that countries act to pursue their interests in other countries. That just sounds like a description of the concept of foreign policy.
notably in Hungary when there were democratic protests
You’re talking about the fascist uprising where they went around marking the houses of Jews and Communists for extermination, like only a decade after the Soviets saved the world from Hitler?
I think Belarus should annex both countries.
I find these terms agreeable
Chad
And you guys and MAGA have similar views on China
we want an immediate end to the war. in what way does wanting an end to the death make us comparable with the alt-right?
How is being pro russia and wanting war to end in any way compatible though? They invaded Ukraine. They literally started a war. That’s a pretty disgusting deflection tbh
How is wanting an end to a war being pro-russia?
NATO/US started the war when they couped the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014, and when the US installed regime started bombing civilians in the Donbass
Oh so Russia is just saving Ukrainians from US imperialism by bombing them and committing war crimes. Thank god for our wonderful leader putin o7
Russia started a war. Ukraine has two choices. Surrender and end the bloodshed, or fight tooth and nail and pour more innocent people into the meat grinder and then surrender. There is not a third option. Obviously they should choose the former.
Calling for an immediate end to the war is dishonest and supports Russia
We’re just not keeping our head in the sand here. Ukraine is not taking back Crimea, or even the Donbas. The counteroffensive failed horribly. Cheering for more bloodshed isn’t going to make a better outcome in the end.
“cheering for more bloodshed.” Are you telling on yourself? You act like a counteroffensive is supposed to be fast and easy. It’s not, war is bloody and deadly and Russia is not going to call for peace until they achieve their objective of overthrowing the Ukrainian government or achieving a peace deal where they can keep Ukraine’s economic sectors
They can either surrender now, or surrender when all the able bodied people have been killed for no good reason. Ukraine can no longer win this war.
“Ukraine should surrender so that they can spare their civilian and combatant lives to Russia which totally won’t abuse their land and people as they’ve done in the past”
Russia could make that happen, you know. They could pull their forces out. Right now, that would end the conflict.
Do you think we’re in charge of the Russian military? The war is going to end eventually one way or another. We might as well push for the path that preserves Ukrainian lives.
Are we in charge of the Ukrainian military? Not that it really matters, but still.
Russia can unilaterally end the conflict. Ukraine cannot (yet). Calling on Ukrainians to surrender while they still want to defend themselves is cowardice. I would rather support their continued struggle.
And Ukraine could have prevented all of this by simply abiding by the several peace deals they signed before the war started. What’s your point?
Oh, so Russia deciding to invade Ukraine is the fault of the Ukrainians? Cool. Very normal opinion.
Damn too bad they’re not going to do that, so what should we do about that? We support a negotiated settlement to the conflict in order to achieve peace, you support marching every single Ukrainian person into a meat grinder to die. Which of is more right wing?
This isn’t about us. What “we” should do is to support and show solidarity with the side being attacked by an imperialist, dictatorial state and help them defend themselves.
When the Finnish were defending themselves in the Winter War it would not have been just to say “they should just surrender to save their lives”. The Finns did eventually surrender, but only after they had stomped the Soviet army all across Finland. They continued fighting not to die but so that they could live.
The Ukrainians are fighting now not to die but so that they can live in (relative) freedom.
Again, this “we should just capitulate to whatever warmongers want” stuff is shameful and cowardly, doubly so for people on the Left.
imagine dying on the “war is bad” hill. i can agree on that point, and i don’t even need to politically align myself with real shitters and make a fool of myself in pseudo-public to do it!
imagine not thinking war is bad. imagine believing American propaganda given its track record.
Bro, this war is totally different to every other war, bro!
Trust me, bro! I know we got duped into supporting:
The Korean War
The Vietnam War
The war in Iraq
The other war in Iraq
The war in Afghanistan
The war in the Philippines
The war in Guatemala
The war on Cuba
The war in Laos
The war in Cambodia
The war in Somalia
The war in Yemen
The war in Libya
The war in Grenada
The war in Yugoslavia
…but this time it’s an existential threat!! Trust me, bro!
imagine dying on the “war is bad” hill
art
“Very” implies you’ve drilled down beyond the very first superficial similarity.
Please offer two things in which we have in common since you’re clearly not just talking out of your ass.
Heck they end up meeting on many things…
name literally a single one or quit spreading this bullshit.
Genocide denial.
Which genocide is being denied by hexbear users?
I had some conversations here. They were saying that China isn’t doing anything to the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. That seems like genocide denial to me.
Why are you linking an actual propaganda thinktank as an example as of Uyghur Genocide?
You could link any source, but you link one that is staffed by people who’s careers have been purely to lie about American’s enemies and push American interests?? I hope you’re a little sharper than that and you’re just linking that because you hope other people will swallow anything.
“HEY GUYS THIS ORGANIZATION THAT IS PAID TO TELL ME THAT CHINA IS BAD, GET THIS, SAYS CHINA IS BAD!!”
Come on bud.
You want the wiki?
While I think nay accusation of genocide should be taken seriously and investigated, I do not think we should accept these claims without basis, and we have to accept that despite several years of allegations, no proof has been provided. Both the US state department and the CIA have had to acknowledge that there is no genocide going on in Xinjiang. Here’s a carrd with mainly Western sources debunking the claims of genocide https://xinjiangahr.carrd.co/
Both the US state department and the CIA have had to acknowledge that there is no genocide going on in Xinjiang
That’s very misleading. They say they have insufficient proof to say it is racially motivated. (Which is a prerequisite for genocide) But there is certainly great oppression happening there.
Denounce the US genocide against Martians right now or you’re a genocide denier.
Hell yeah I’m a genocide denier.
I deny white genocide without any remorse 😎
So you believe in White Genocide?
Being pro Russia, genocide denialism, authoritarianism, being hateful of ideas that don’t conform to their worldview, racism (just not towards the same people), the list goes on and on.
Being anti-nato does not mean we are pro-russia.
Specifically which genocide is being denied?
Define “authoritarianism”.
Yes we are hateful towards racism, sexism, ableism, transphobia, homophobia and fascism.
What racism is being done by hexbear users? The mod team takes such things very seriouslyHey, I’m a Hexbear user and I really think you have the wrong impression of what our site is. Idk if you’re open to reconsidering or if you’re just trying to get a few antagonistic words in but I’ll tell you my experience as a long time user:
Being pro Russia
Our site isn’t pro-russia. We just want the war to come to a swift end without any further bloodshed. Some people take offense to that because we don’t think the best way to do that is to send more guns, tanks, planes, dollars, etc into the warzone. That benefits no one except the arms manufacturers and the money lenders. Not regular people on either side.
genocide denialism
The only thing I can think of that you would be referring to is the “holodomor” or something similar that happened in the USSR. It’s not that we deny that many people did die in these horrible tragedies or that there wasn’t Soviet government involvement in some of them but that these very real events are being distorted for political reasons by people who want to paint the USSR in a certain, wholly bad, light. As communists (or anarchists), we try to be very open to criticism and new ways of thinking about or doing things but not when the intent is to do historical revisionism to make the people who liberated the concentration camps and ended the crimes of Nazism seem like Nazis under a different name.
Authoritarianism
Well, I guess this is true in a way. As revolutionists, we do seek to change the system by establishing a new authority with the capability to make this change. But have you ever noticed how the current system maintains and perpetuates itself? Sure, you can vote (and we don’t seek to abolish that!), but when that fails and working-class people take to the streets seeking change, why is it that people with guns and tear gas and riot shields try to stop them and maybe even imprison them? It’s not that leftists are uniquely “authoritarian” but that we want to use that authority for representing regular, working-class people and to bring about a better world where that authority isn’t necessary anymore. Our anarchist users probably have a somewhat different take on this but one of them will have to talk about it lol
being hateful of ideas that don’t conform to their worldview
Sure, there are a lot of ideas that we hate. But isn’t that everyone? I hope we could all agree on hating things like fascism, racism, sexism, transphobia, etc etc. Our users probably feel more strongly about that than most people lol but that’s just cuz a lot of us have been targets of those kinds of ideas. Other than stuff like that though… this site has been one of the most accepting places on the Internet in my experience. Sure, we argue a lot (sometimes too zealously lol), but just cuz we care a lot about getting things right. On our site, we don’t have downvotes to encourage users to actually challenge bad ideas and voice their opinion instead of just feeling satisfied having slightly influenced an algorithm.
racism (just not towards the same people)
This just hasn’t been my experience and I know most of our users would agree. Racism gets swiftly removed on Hexbear and lots of people replying challenging it. Do you have any examples? This has just been so contrary to my time on the site. Unless you mean jokes about white people but I hope I don’t have to explain why that’s not a problem lol
Anyway, I just want our instances and our users to exist together in peace. I know we have very “different” ideas from what is considered the mainstream in the west and on most of the English-speaking internet but I know our presence on the “fediverse” can be a positive thing and that we can get along. I hope this helps you to understand our site a bit better.
The whole “we want to end the war” argument just reeks. It stinks of russian propaganda. Russia started the war. They invaded Ukraine. Would you have the same viewpoint if the US was the invader? I’ve seen that comment several times and it kinda starts sounding like a red fascist dogwhistle
The war did not start in 2022, your analysis of what has been happening before the invasion needs to go back before that.
Ok
dude history has a context
Unless by racism you mean racism but I hope I don’t have to explain why racism isn’t a problem lol
🤡🤡🤡
Do you think “anti-white racism” is even remotely as bad as other forms of racism? Or even a problem at all? White people already have all the privileges bestowed upon them by a fundamentally white-supremacist society. Making fun of this concept on our tiny social media website isn’t hurting anyone.
Do you think “anti-white racism” is even remotely as bad as other forms of racism?
In the vast majority of cases, no, not even close.
Or even a problem at all?
It’s 100% a problem, for multiple reasons. First and foremost, it’s racist, so it’s already inherently a problem for that reason alone. But it’s also a problem because your [hexbear’s] moralistic self-righteousness combined with your [hexbear’s] obvious hypocrisy gives people opposed to your ideals that much more ammunition (and of course you don’t care about that, but that itself is also part of the hexbear problem).
And the worst part is that, as with so many of hexbear’s problems, there’s no reason for it. It’s such an easy problem to fix, and would give an instance like hexbear that supposedly prides itself on its inclusivity such a huge boost in credibility. If you want to set yourselves up as morally unimpeachable, then be morally unimpeachable! Set an actual example, and be leaders that bring people together, not because of compromising your beliefs, but by actually being consistent, steadfast, and intellectually honest about the beliefs you already have.
And sure, I get the importance of having a place where you can feel comfortable and meme hyperbolically about problems you feel are important, and about the people who don’t agree with you. That seems to be the direction that most hexbears seem to want to go.
But, in the end, it is racist, and it is disingenuous to promote yourselves as this bastion of anti-racism while encouraging literal racism on your instance and then act all surprised pikachu face when you get called out on it.
Can’t be racist against white people
Really? Go tell that to Jews… Or the Irish… Or Acadians (heck, french Canadians in general)… The list goes on and on…
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No one here is pro Russia lol. We just recognize that the war in Ukraine is an intractable meat grinder, and working for peace is more productive than continuing the conflict in an effort to further enrich War Contractors.
boo hoo someone is to your left politically and you’re mad about it.
The only person that looks mad here is you…
cope
“These two groups disagree with me, that means they must agree with each other!”
If you’re familiar with CTH and the dirtbag left, Hexbear is where they went after being banned by Reddit.
For what it is when lemm.ee considered de-federated from them they flooded the instance turning a 200 comment thread into 1200. And lots of harassment. Edit: In case you wanted to read that clusterbomb of a thread: https://lemm.ee/post/4543536
I had to look them up but yep I do remember CTH. Thanks for the answer, I’ll keep an eye out.
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What? There’s plenty of nonsense in there, for example:
[https://lemm.ee/comment/2394714](also, fuck off landlord. Mao was right.)
From the wiki:
In this vein, Mao insisted that the people themselves, not the public security organs, should become involved in enacting the Land Reform Law and killing the landlords who had oppressed them, in contrast to the Soviet practice of dekulakization.
… yikes. That said, it’s online bickering, there’s always going to be examples of bad behaviour.
As for my own, unasked, opinion on hexbear. I don’t really notice them around. Maybe its because I’m blind to them as I am generally left leaning, I did by contrast notice the EH memes before they were defederated. I’m generally an all/new scroller on Lemmy.
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No, no, they’re right on this one. Killing your landlord is good actually. Like literally everything else Mao did was bad, but he was right on this.
I’m a little more reserved. I would peg my response to their attitude to change.
If they’re willing to step aside, or even support shelter becoming a human right, then I’ve got bigger problems than them.
If they’re going to cling tooth and nail to a system that sees people freeze and starve for their own enrichment then yeah, fuck 'em.
If they’re willing to step aside, or even support shelter becoming a human right
I mean, they could do that now. They don’t gotta wait until the knives are at their throat–though if that does happen, i expect plenty will say whatever they think will get them off the hook.
I mean, the people who believe that landlords should be killed could do that now. They don’t gotta wait either.
I get the feeling if you learnt more about Mao you’d find a lot of things you’d want to add to your list.
Anyone who downvoted the above post is free to go back to reddit. You clearly do not understand how the internet works, return to your walled garden.
I had some conversations here. They were saying that north Korea is a lovely democracy, Russia is totally justified in Ukraine, and China isn’t doing anything to the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Just some examples from yesterday.
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