There’s one more angle to this - apart from the raise in vigilante violence and messing up with police operations which both are very valid.
Just as we stopped getting TV feeds constantly equating pedophiles to child molesters, those guys stepped in to fill the void.
Pedophiles are not inherently child molesters. This kind of equation is not only wrong, it also adds to promoting dangerous behaviors among them.
Plenty of pedophiles will never abuse a single child, knowing full well it is dangerous and harmful for minors to be engaged in such relationships. However, the more we equate pedophiles to predators, the more people, especially in the emotionally vulnerable groups like teen pedophiles, will actually accept themselves in this role. Among those who stands against this anyway, plenty will become suicidal, not seeing an option to live a non-offending life.
Current methods of therapy aimed at reducing child abuse rates go very strongly on this - pedophiles should face message of them not being inherently dangerous, not the message of them being an immediate and imminent danger. Not only this is scientifically correct, it is actually useful in making these people safer for others.
That’s an interesting and reasonable take.
I’m actually surprised you are not down voted to oblivion!Guess this is what happens when you meet real people online who are not artificially enraged - a productive conversation!
The pedophiles being attacked are actively hunting, otherwise, they wouldn’t be caught in a trap…
Sure, but shows of this kind commonly imply that all pedophiles are child abusers and all child abusers are pedophiles, neither of which is true - and such equations have real-world negative implications.
In practice, I don’t see how I would even know someone is a pedophile if they didn’t act on their inclinations. I guess they could publicly declare it but that seems unwise.
I would be concerned if the Internet vigilantes ran with unsubstantiated rumors, like if say Elon musk just called someone a pedophile or of the blue.
This is one of the most problematic parts about vigilante justice and why it should be gone for good, regardless of what they are trying to achieve.
You’re getting super close to “well, akshully, it’s epehbophilia not pedophilia” territory.
I give 0 fucks why someone rapes a kid. And I have 0 sympathy for anyone getting beaten to a pulp for raping a kid.
Nope, I’m not getting there. Sure, ephebophilia is a thing, and so is hebephilia, but in a given context there’s no point in this distinction.
I’m only saying that many cases of child abuse do not involve pedophiles/hebephiles/ephebophiles/whatever. Children are the easiest to take advantage of, and this is what drives quite a few hypersexual non-pedophiles to become child abusers despite not being predominantly attracted to children/minors to begin with.
Regardless of reasons, whoever abuses children deserves punishment - although I would much prefer for the police, not vigilantes, to be involved in it.
Why would you expect rapists to punish rapists?
Alright bud, you went too far into angry trolling territory.
Gosh, what .today has become these days…
This only happens because there is rarely justice from the state, in these cases.
How many clergy who are rapists still walk around, protected by the state?
Vigilantes taking the law into their own hands with violence is always a sign of a healthy society. It also never leads to tragedy.
Vigilantes not fueled by lack of justice, but by views mind you.
Ah, TikTok justice. No way for that to go wrong, nosir.
I’m completely with you on this, and I’m surprised your comment is so highly voted because this community is quick to endorse vigilantism. Just the other day I was scrolling through a thread full of comments about how a guy who was arrested should have been more brutally assaulted by an angry mob.
Vigilantism is just a sign that government has become too corrupt to deal with problems effectively. It can be good or evil, it can be effective or a complete nightmarish excuse to get rid of hated minorities or people the majority simply fell out of favor with.
But if you’re a victim under that corrupt government, it’s the only solution you have, so its hard not to cheer. No one is shedding tears for torched tesla’s in dealerships or the dead ceo Saint Luigi was framed for killing.
Its just harder to trust and justify clout chasers attacking essentially random people they themselves labeled with a crime that no one can reasonably defend themselves against.
Vigilantism is just a sign that government has become too corrupt to deal with problems effectively.
Or a sign that government is the problem as politicians resort more to divisiveness, hatred, bigotry and scapegoating to capture more extreme voters. Politicians stoke the outrage, inflame some groups against others, call for ending the rights of those they’ve marginalized, and even pardon those who committed treason in the name of fake vigilantism, based on manipulation and misrepresentation
That’s the same as corruption. Corruption isn’t just monetary bribes.
Vigilantism is just a sign that government has become too corrupt
There was a lot of vigilantism during Reconstruction because the government was NOT corrupt.
But if you’re a victim under that corrupt government, it’s the only solution you have, so its hard not to cheer. No one is shedding tears for torched tesla’s in dealerships or the dead ceo Saint Luigi was framed for killing.
When the political and judicial systems are riddled with corruption, rough justice might be the only justice for some kinds of crime.
Its just harder to trust and justify clout chasers
If they’re paid by the click, they’re part of the problem, not the solution.
Lots of people in the comments are failing to see the issue with this, so allow me to illustrate. Fair warning, this will not be an easy read.
So let’s imagine you really hate trans people, gay people, and liberals. Unfortunately for you, none of these are crimes (yet), so you can’t just go around assaulting and killing these people indiscriminately, as much as you’d like to. So what are you going to do?
Well, the best hate campaigns start with a shared enemy, and nobody is more hated than a child predator. Best of all, you can do pretty much whatever you want to them with no recourse. What are they going to do, call the police? Nobody is going to speak out against what you’re doing, because if they do, you can just say that if they don’t support you, then they must be defending child predators!
Now that we have a precedent for violence, it’s time to expand our scope a bit. Since hunting pedophiles is a-ok, now you just need to label anyone you don’t like a pedophile. You could say gay and trans people are pedophiles and groomers. And again, if anyone opposes you, just call them a groomer too!
But maybe that’s not enough for you. No, you want to make sure that you can target anyone who disagrees with you. Well good news, because you can just join a group of people who believe that anyone who dislikes Donald Trump is a deep state pedophile. You don’t even need evidence anymore, and there’s a good chance the cops will be on your side! Happy hunting!
Seriously though, this vigilante “justice” should not be celebrated. Yes, we need to take child predators off the streets, but there is a process for that. Denying anyone due process opens the door to denying it to everyone.
These type of discussions remind me of a case in Minnesota where a neighbor framed their neighbor by hacking their wifi and planting child pornography.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-gets-18-yrs-for-wifi-hack-child-porn-frame/
It was also an episode of CSI Miami, where a dude targeted “pedo” by planting a virus that quickly put CPnon the computer. Since the original guy did this he was arrested for Distribution of CP and was responsible for the murder by inciting a mod to attack him. The pedo that got unintentionally sent CP was then targeted by a mob, and murdered.
I wish that article had more information on how the framed person proved their innocence. It’s probably boring but he must have felt like he was taking crazy pills when he was framed.
Here is more info:
“Barry Ardolf, a Minnesota hacker prosecutors described as a ‘depraved criminal,’ has been handed an 18-year prison term for unleashing a vendetta of cyberterror that turned his neighbors’ lives into a living nightmare. Ardolf hacked into his next-door neighbors’ Wi-Fi network and used it to try and frame them for child pornography, sexual harassment, various kinds of professional misconduct, and to send threatening e-mail to politicians, including Vice President Joe Biden. The bizarre tale began in 2009 when Matt and Bethany Kostolnik moved into the house next door to Ardolf. On their first day at their new home, the Kostolnik’s then-4-year-old son wandered near Ardolf’s house. While carrying him back next door, Ardolf allegedly kissed the boy on the lips. ‘We’ve just moved next door to a pedophile,’ Mrs. Kostolnik told her husband. The couple reported Ardolf to the police, angering their creepy new neighbor (PDF). ‘I decided to “get even” by launching computer attacks against him,’ said Ardolf, who downloaded Wi-Fi hacking software and spent two weeks cracking the Kostolnik’s WEP encryption. Then he used their own Wi-Fi network to create a fake MySpace page for the husband, where he posted a picture of a pubescent girl having sex with two young boys. Ardolf turned down a 2-year plea agreement last year to charges related to the Biden e-mail. After that, the authorities piled on more charges, including identity theft and two kiddie-porn accusations carrying lifetime sex-offender registration requirements.”
https://it.slashdot.org/story/11/07/13/0445224/the-wi-fi-hacking-neighbor-from-hell
Oh wow, thanks!
I’d say it’s also a problem that the sort of people who use the Internet to find people to beat up are idiots, so even if they aren’t going out of their way to victimize minorities, odds are they’ll just beat up some random person.
Don’t they already do that? Them getting attacked isn’t getting in a court conviction anytime soon, because it will be disregarded evidence, and it was done with prejudice too
Do people read this and fail to realize that the “calling everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” rhetoric is the exact same thing? Yes, they do
Who are you targeting with that message? Because what’s going on with the current US admin is straight out of the nazi playbook.
It feels like you are trying to get validation for your position.
But if you saw where this was going and said it too early, this perspective means you’re responsible for people not taking you seriously now!
The Nazis were fascists that looked to create a 1000 year reich and believed the destiny was to birth the master race. Trump et al are not doing this which means they are a different kind of fascist than Nazis. That doesn’t make it better much like being shot with a .308 instead of a .44 caliber round isn’t “better” it just makes it a different kind of harm.
I’d say that the nazi salute on live tv sealed the deal.
If it looks like a Nazi and squeak like a Nazi, it’s a fucking Nazi.
From my reply to another
"Ok? How does that change my statement that they are a different kind of fascist? Keep in mind my point is entirely focused on the ideology part of the political ideology whereas you are talking about a salute. How does an arm motion change the policy goals which aren’t the same as what Nazis support? What policy goal can you derive from an arm motion to begin with?
They are still evil they are just a different kind of evil. Not all fascists are nazis. The fact that one guy did a nazi salute twice doesn’t change project 2025 into something that Nazis would support."
Taxonomy.
- A cat is [animal]
- A dog is an [animal]
The nazi’s did such a good job of distinguishing themselves they created their own (colloquial) taxonomic branch.
So [nazi] could be considered a parent grouping of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party and also potentially a parent grouping for the republicans.
I think they key here is separating the nazi party from the [nazi] category
As you pointed out all [nazi]'s are [fascist]'s but not all [fascist]'s are [nazi]'s
- National Socialist German Workers’ Party were [nazi]'s
- The American Republican Party are subjectively showing enough similarities (both in type and progression) that they get the provisional label of [nazi] as it’s the closest existing definition.
Might turn out that they don’t quite fall in the same branch, might turn out they do. Until then [nazi] is an easy shortcut for describing the types of behaviour displayed.
Even if they were just a direct descendent ( taxonomically ) rather than a sibling of the original nazi party there would still be an argument to claim they were nazi’s
Like :
- animal -> mammal -> cat
- nazi -> nazi party -> republican
Come back in a few years and you’ll probably get your definitive answer either way.
You don’t have to agree with any of that of course, but it does demonstrate how someone might have an opposing opinion to your own.
Are you accusing me of being alarmist after I provided sources for the things that are actually going on?
See the problem is people see the word “Nazi” and (for some convenient reason) think people are literally talking about a card carrying member of the NSDAP, which obviously doesn’t exist after 1945.
Substitute “fascist authoritarian” for “Nazi” in more modern contexts and it makes more sense.
In Austria the ‘pedophile hunters’ targeted gay men who were not pedophiles. If ‘pedophile hunters’ would actually care about their cause, they would storm the next church…
This is obviously where this is going and it’s a big part why they’re obsessed with labeling people “groomers.”
The Church actually has a lower rate of child abuse than public schools…
Only one thing to do: set two pedophile hunters up on a date.
kinda like an inverted version of that Black Mirror episode but instead of making two pedophiles kill each other, we get the hunters to hut each other?
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That is fucking genius
Like when one police precinct sets up a drug bust on an undercover cop from another precinct pretending to be a drug dealer.
Have they tried looking in churches and the Republican party?
That would get them regulated, they’re only going after the “correct” “bad people”
Catholic church is just the tip but it is a low hanging fruit.
Lists are out there.
Great. Just dump anyone you dislike as a “pedophile” and then it’s a free for all.
especially when you have people like elon musk calling people they don’t like paedophiles and winning defamation suits over it by claiming he calls everyone paedophiles.
Hmm, I seem to recall Trump being a pedophile.
They don’t actually care about pedophiles; a lot of them are pedophiles
Yes.
When AI can create any image or video based on another person with their perfect face and voice, besides the scams that will keep increasing, the other great value of the tech is that we going to be able to create any proof and footage we want to incriminate whoever we wish.
They are already doing that shit.
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Reddit would be outraged about an 18 yo dating a 16 yo, though. Some people have really weird and unrealistic views on this
Those Redditors are probably 16 year olds themselves upset that the girls they like are always going for 18 - 20 year olds
That’s why I find reddit so strange. Age gaps is apparently the most demonic thing you can do. No matter if you’re 19 dating a 17 or 34 dating a 27 you’re a huge red flag either way.
Yup, and the arguments are so weirdly self centered, too. “I went through so much when I started college, what would I talk about with someone in HIGH SCHOOL?” (19-17 gap) Dude, you started smoking pot and went to a few frat parties, it’s not that deep. Also are these people just always discussing life experiences for some reason? No shared interests, hobby groups, common acquaintances?
This is part of the reason why casual accusations of pedophilia have always disturbed me. Because it can lead even people who in most other circumstances would be considered pro-justice and pro-human rights into mini-Mengeles.
And I’ve seen people just throw out the accusation without even prompt or justification, just because they hate somebody (maybe for other good reasons) and want to see if it sticks. It’s fucked up.
Then there’s other cases like that one where that 18-year-old got jumped for being baited into going on a date with another 18-year-old, while under the impression that she was… at least 18. A couple of people posted about that already.
Oh hey, it’s “won’t somebody please think of the children?” taken to the streets for internet clout! Absolutely nothing wrong can happen there! /s
Bread and circuses
shit gonna morph into persecuting queer people real quick.
And then when it’s pointed out a bunch of mfs are gonna say. “Why are you AFRAID?? WhAt aN odd tHinG to sAy!! they’re only going after bad people!”
like shit brother. right on brother. Im sorry. I guess all those 1920’s lynch mobs were only going after criminals too then 🤷♂️. Matter of fact I bet no innocent people were hurt, and it wasn’t because of the color of their skin at all. Only criminals! /s
They’ve never heard of the railroad strikes of 1922 and call people free loaders for striking.
I have heard people saying panto should be 18+ because it has a man dressed as a woman. Your ideology is a fucking joke.
Oh. They’re just gonna call people pedo and attack them even though they’re not. It’s extremely obvious.
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probably under the guise of attacking lgbtq+ group.
Just prove you’re not a pedo and they will leave you alone.
Good luck proving you’re not anything to an angry mob.
Reminder this fuckface ruined the investigation into Onision for his show.
Didn’t an entire TV show get into some serious hot water for doing this sort of thing which resulted in someone committing suicide while filming an episode? These people are potentially putting themselves in serious danger if they corner a pedo who feels like they have nowhere to run or anything left to lose.
corner a pedo
And since these are internet vigilante kids with no oversight, they will inevitably corner some non-pedos too.
Put yourself in that situation- a couple teenagers with cameras approach you on the street and start accusing you of some of the sickest crimes imaginable. Even though the accusation is false, this has the potential to ruin your career, your relationships, your entire life.
I’m not sure how anyone would respond, or should respond, but I can definitely see how people might resort to violence when falsely accused of this horrible shit on camera.
Just happened here in Austria. Police took 20 people into custody (13 have since been formally arrested) for luring people to fake dates where they beat them up.
The suspects said they hunted pedophiles, but at least in some of the cases they targeted young adults who expected to come to a date with 16-18 year olds.
16-18 year olds
wouldnt those technically be Ephebophiles?
Imported US culture (movies, TV etc) has successfully planted the idea in a lot of people that teenagers under 18 are “essentially the same as little children”. So no one cares about technicalities.
Yeah, many normal, healthy people (even Americans) started having sex long before they were 18.
16 is the age of consent in most countries. Even a surprisingly large amount of US states have it there.
In mine the age of consent is “16” or within 5 years of your current age. Whichever is lower.
You’d still get a lot of weird looks, social ostracization, and mean comments but it’d be legal.
We actually had a case recently where a 16 year old had sex with a 45 year old in the latter’s van and the police couldn’t do anything because according to her she consented and 16 is within the age of consent here.
Raising concerns about whether the age should be raised. But no one expects anything to be done about it. I mean this state has a lot of Republicans in charge and I’m sure some of their mistresses are about to turn 16 themselves…
Exactly. Vigilante justice is not the solution here, it’s only going to get a lot of people hurt.
Especially when there are legitimate routes to volunteer under police guidance and jurisdiction. Join one of those groups instead, and let the legal system jail them.
The huge issue with these vigilantes is accusing someone of pedophilia, like rape, can have damning consequences on someones life. Beyond losing their job they could take their own life.
To catch a predator was a good series because it was a sting. They had adults pose as teens and bait pedos to a house.
You wouldn’t go to that damn house with the home alone teen unless you wanted to commit statutory rape.
That’s what I was thinking of. Thanks!
If they corner anyone, tbh. This is a pretty ruinous accusation.
If they corner anyone, tbh. This is a pretty ruinous accusation
nah in the US they make you president for it
Only if you’re rich. I doubt these fuck sticks are going after rich people
No of course not, then they’d actually face consequences for it.
(Yes, I know there are people who do this to those who aren’t rich and still face consequences but I get the feeling that’s more of “the exception rather than the rule”)
