• PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
      3·
      5 days ago

      I, John Brown, am now quite certain, that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with blood.

      He did know that already in 1859

  • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
    1·
    6 days ago

    Haha, I still not sure what to call them.

    1. USAns?
    2. USArians?
    3. USians?

    I think Usans would be the most correct, but they are a people with no name.

  • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    Americans think their favorite political sports team cares about them like the stripper actually loved them. No, you just gave them what they wanted and as soon as you’re out of sight, they’ll forget you and keep doing their job.

    For strippers it’s doing a workout for a living and being proud of their bodies. For politicians it’s gaslighting the public into thinking they’re the good guys as they socially murder at home and sweep up blood abroad.

  • sfu@lemm.eeEnglish
    0·
    5 days ago

    We need to all vote libertarian, just to see what its like. As it is, we keep going back and forth with half the country hating the gov and each other. I think I speak for many on both sides when I say, we are tired of the red and blue.

      • sfu@lemm.eeEnglish
        11·
        4 days ago

        Worse than getting another R or D in there? I guess we could go independent if not libertarian. We just need a change.

        • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          4 days ago

          Did you see what happened when a bunch of libertarians took over their own town? Nobody wanted to pay for or pick up their garbage and their town got overran by bears.

    • TheFudd@lemmy.world
      0·
      5 days ago

      Libertarian here. That’s a terrible idea, most of us are downright nutjobs. The only things us libertarians have going for us is that (unlike Democrats or Republicans) some of us are fully aware that our party is a joke, and sometimes when we screw things up it’s amusing. Ever hear about the time we got an entire town over run by wild bears? I mean, bringing in actual wild bears might sound more entertaining than Democrats saying they’d rather be around bears than men, or the bear markets that Republicans have create with tariffs, but it’s still not exactly good for the people living there.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
      0·
      6 days ago

      Alternative voting systems have in practice been proven useless, whether in South Korea, Japan, Australia, and many other capitalist dictatorship countries that use it. It might make bribery a bit more expensive, since there are more candidates to buy off, and more political advertising necessary, but it hasn’t fixed anything.

      The root problem is capital standing above political power. And that can’t be undone using it’s own platform.

      • Sibshops@lemm.eeEnglish
        0·
        6 days ago

        How are you measuring useless?

        Australia has RCV and has more than 2 active political parties.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
          1·
          6 days ago

          RCV hasn’t stopped right wing governments from coming to power, nor returned lands to indigenous Australians, nor done anything to reverse concentration of wealth or media ownership.

          • Sibshops@lemm.eeEnglish
            0·
            6 days ago

            True, it’s just a voting system. It can’t do those things unless people vote for those things to happen.

            The thing RCV does do is break us out of the control of a 2-party government. So we could have a communist party with RCV, but can’t in our current system.

            • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
              1·
              6 days ago

              You can’t achieve a democracy through voting, it always results in an oligarchy. The wealthy / economically dominant classes are the only ones who have enough money / prestige to finance their campaigns and win the popularity contest. It makes any political system based on elections nothing more than political theatre.

              This is basic stuff even the ancient greeks knew, and communists learned through trial and error, yet liberals in the 21st century can’t wrap their heads around it.

  • blinx615@lemmy.ml
    0·
    5 days ago

    So… I should just lay down and take it? I’m not sure what point is being made.

    • sudo@programming.dev
      1·
      5 days ago

      Look for ways to pursue political goals beyond obediently punching a ballot. The billionaires don’t control politics just because they vote harder. There’s lots of ways to go about it but almost all practical strategies involve being a part of a larger organization. Unions are the most classic example.

        • sudo@programming.dev
          1·
          4 days ago

          Many are, yes, but 1) be selective of what union you join, 2) you’re union vote counts more than your federal vote. Usurping a corrupt union boss is a much smaller task than usurping a corrupt democrat and can yield far more results.

          Freshly organized work places are almost always more radical than those those entrenched, so organizing your workplace now is more important than ever. Then you can pick which union to join.

      • blinx615@lemmy.ml
        1·
        4 days ago

        I support the alternatives up until election day when I have to accept reality and not throw my vote away. Truth is if everyone voted for their ideal candidate, we’d end up with 50 parties each getting 2% of the vote… There’s always more ways to split. You have to compromise somewhere if you’re going to vote at all.

  • Contemporarium@lemm.eeEnglish
    01·
    5 days ago

    The funniest thing about non Americans is that they think most of us don’t fucking know this. It’s so annoying

  • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
    01·
    5 days ago

    here’s an example for you to drive home why sentiment like this is dumb and creates false equivalencies. when I was 14, I worked at a grocery store. there were two managers that I would get scheduled with. they both sucked and were awful human beings. however, one was a known child predator. which one do you think I’d rather get scheduled with?

    • m532@lemmygrad.ml
      1·
      5 days ago

      Well in that case its simple. Take the nonpredator. Now in usa voterinos both are doing genocide together. In that case its also simple. Reject both.

    • harsh3466@lemmy.ml
      0·
      5 days ago

      The sentiment isn’t dumb. It’s true. The Democrats don’t give a fuck about us plebs. I voted for Harris and absolutely will vote for/choose the lesser evil as long as I’m still able. Doing so does not mean the Dems give any fucks about me.

      Remember when Bernie had real momentum behind him and the Dems sabotaged him because Hillary was determined to have her run at the presidency? If the Democratic party gave a fuck about the voting public they’d have gone whole hog behind Bernie.

      It the Dems cared about normies, they’d be doing more than performative filibusters that accomplish nothing. If the Democratic party cared they’d be throwing up every fucking roadblock they could to actually try and stop that motherfucker Trump and his fucking cronies.

      Are the Dems a better option than the Republicans? Yes. Do the Dems care about us? No. They’re just the less shitty choice.

      • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
        01·
        5 days ago

        I agree. I didn’t say you’re wrong. I’m just saying that the way this the meme is phrased creates a false equivalency that is misleading unless spelled out like you did

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
      0·
      5 days ago

      Even with Biden exiting late, that was a winnable election and the dems botched it by trying to fit as much evil as they thought they could get away with into the platform-- so they could cash the most checks from AIPAC.

      If Harris had just said two weeks before the general that she thought what was going on was genocide, she’d be president right now and the minimum of campaign funding would have been lost. Sure the far right would never donate to the dems again, but when you look at what their donations cost us all, why would anyone take that money anyway?

      Bringing their priorities into the party was always a massive mistake by DNC leadership.

      And the dems like yourself learned nothing from the loss and keep preaching to others to accept lesser evils. When it comes to crimes against humanity I think you’ll find for the dems that enough of their base says “never again – for any ethnicity” that they should not even try this again unless they absolutely want to lose. Theres barely enough base to even try to win again in any case. We’re past any sort of ‘optimizing for highest $$’ strategizing and just fighting for the party to even exist at all anymore. So maybe take your lesser evil metaphor and fold it till its all sharp corners and do the needful.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
          2·
          5 days ago

          Liberals would sooner imagine the end of existence, than the thousands of other alternatives and types of political action and organizing, other than voting for their genocidal parties.

          Many imperialized peoples in the world rejected liberalism and its controlled opposition parties, and decided to build their own working class parties to oppose capitalist domination… and they freed themselves from imperialism and uplifted millions of people out of poverty in the process.

          Despite being far poorer and less educated than imperial-core liberals, they are much more intelligent, and realize that step 1, is to form their own pro-worker / pro-peasant parties. They don’t eat the shit on a plate given to them like US liberals are happy to do.

        • bishbosh@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          5 days ago

          I mean there is the difficult but not acquiescent solution, that coincidentally carries parallels to the real world, of unionizing your work place and using the power of collective bargaining to demand better conditions. This is hard work and takes time and effort, but instead of recognizing that and trying to help, people check out. And those pushing for it are called unrealistic tools of the bad manager and that we demand perfection, while every year the ‘lesser evil’ manager gets a bit more touchy with his subordinates.

          Further in the real world analog of this, the ‘lesser evil’ manager is bombing children, and driving us towards climate catastrophe. Yes democratic politicians are better then republican ones, but that doesn’t negate the point of the meme. They do not give a fuck about you, and they will drive us off the climate cliff, they will bomb more children, they will give more tools to the police state, and they will hire more ICE agents. With such stakes we need to do the hard thing and demand better.

            • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
              3·
              5 days ago

              You are literally the one in the right in this pic. Shaming people for wanting to improve the world rather than voting for your status quo genocidal party.

            • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
              3·
              5 days ago

              very funny meme to go with, considering that “choosing the slightly less evil option” is in fact not improving anything about society, but instead just watching society get worse, at a slower pace. you are very intelligent!!

              • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
                03·
                5 days ago

                “choosing the less evil option” and then continuing to protest, resist, and break shit will bring about change though. especially when the less evil option didn’t vow to bring in the national guard to crack down on pro Palestine protestors.

                y’all are centrists masquerading as leftists, you care more about what you seem to be right and true than the consequences of it

        • Toribor@corndog.socialEnglish
          03·
          5 days ago

          I’ve never realized how young everyone on Lemmy must be until I came across this thread.

          “Just get a different job.” and “Both parties are bad.” are exactly the useless nihilistic asshole attitudes I had about things when I was about half my current age.

          • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
            11·
            5 days ago

            lemmy actually tends to skew older than a lot of platforms (ive seen stats for this around just don’t have any on hand). the person I responded to above is actually one of the creators of lemmy. unfortunately, lemmy also skews towards chronically online and white, which means there’s a lot of those opinions floating around.

            • Toribor@corndog.socialEnglish
              03·
              5 days ago

              Yeah, probably an unfair take on my part to chalk it up to age instead of emotional maturity.

              Nihilism is just so unproductive. I used to think that attitudes like that were such a smart and obvious response to the absurd state of the world but it’s just an excuse to not engage with reality or accept personal responsibility.

              • Dengalicious@lemmygrad.ml
                3·
                5 days ago

                Please point out any evidence of nihilism displayed above. My feeling is certainly that you just have not a clue of what the word means and just use it as a default criticism. I’m sorry the rest of the world doesn’t kowtow to your far-right delusions.

                • Toribor@corndog.socialEnglish
                  04·
                  5 days ago

                  Okay so let’s accept the premise of this post for a minute: “Both major political parties in the US are equally bad.”

                  What am I supposed to do now? What action can I take to facilitate change?

                  I’d argue that this is a perspective that simply isn’t helpful even if true. I think it’s an excuse to tune out instead of getting engaged. I think it’s an excuse to wish for a better future instead of putting in the real work it takes to make systemic changes that can actually improve people’s lives. It’s a perspective that encourages doing nothing because ‘nothing matters anyway’.

  • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
    01·
    5 days ago

    Yes, but Americans hating their government is exactly what got us here.

    Doubling down on that sentiment is only going to make things worse.

    You understand that, right?

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
      1·
      5 days ago

      Hating the government is right and good. The problem is the crushing of the left, the popular front, and the Democrats taking up all space for opposition to the Republicans, while wanting to be “polite Republicans” and maintaining the status quo above all else is what gave opening for hating the government to take this reactionary form.

      • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
        0·
        5 days ago

        Well, you expect your hate to create for you a few comrades, but it’ll only make for more hillbillies named Conrad.

        • bishbosh@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          5 days ago

          Cute, but maybe the classist stuff isn’t actually a clever tool.

          You know why they’re called red necks?

  • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
    12·
    6 days ago

    Roses are red

    Violets are blue

    Oversimplified political apathy

    Is what gave you Trump 2

      • bishbosh@lemm.eeEnglish
        21·
        5 days ago

        Democrats better not put forward candidates people are apathetic about then.

        • Mniot@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          5 days ago

          Responsibility lies with “The Democrats” (some sort of far away secret group that I can’t influence) and not with any American. If those Democrats can’t give me my perfect candidate, then I’ll just give up and let the fascists win. Also, I can’t figure out why they won’t do this–my ideal liberal candidate would appeal to the majority of Americans!

          • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
            11·
            5 days ago

            It is never the party’s job to appeal to voters. There is one designated party that is just owed support and should never have to craft another appeal besides “The Republicans can’t fill out the paperwork properly, that is why we will build the wall faster, put people in concentration camps at greater numbers, and do fascism better and more politely than the dumb, knuckle-dragging fascists”

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
      02·
      5 days ago

      No, Democrats and Liberals using Trump 2 as an excuse to be vocally pro-genocide and forcing people to accept pro-fascism is what caused Trump 2, since the party cannot fail only be failed by voters willing to accept fascism but not turned off by crude, ham-fisted forms of fascism. The problem, supposedly, is people that oppose Trump’s policies, rather than just needing the Trump policies being polite. It is the Democrat’s need to always adopt all of the previous Republican policies, and their only goal is being the Republicans, but polite. If Genocide and fascism is not a red line, but completely acceptable to support, as long as you can imagine another regime doing the genocide slightly worse, there is no evil you will not work for and support.

      • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
        21·
        3 days ago

        Voting is not a sign of support for everything the candidate does. It’s a choice for who you want to be in the position, and none of the above is not a possible outcome.

        Choosing to not vote means you’re choosing whoever the majority of voters pick

  • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.todayEnglish
    0·
    6 days ago

    “I want the USA to suffer and die”

    Ftfy. Only one party is actively funded by our enemies and is enacting favorable policies to them.

    • 🏴 hamid the villain [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgOP
      2·
      6 days ago

      “our enemies” LOL you Americans are so ridiculous. Turn off the TV, you’re just some dope who works for a living, absolutely no one is your enemy except the dictatorship of capital who are represented by political parties in your country and run capitalism.

      Both of your parties carried on illegal wars in my country, toppled the government, left a power vacuum that consumed my family and I still don’t think of you as my enemy.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
      2·
      6 days ago

      The democrats were committing genocide. GTFO with the “funding our enemies” Ultranationalism.

      You are right about one thing though, I do want the USA to suffer and die, given both sides are fully committed to nationalism and genocide.

      • rational_lib@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 days ago

        This was in Canada and we asked people, how much would you pay to clean one lake from acid rain pollution? And we asked other people, how much would you pay to clean up all lakes in Ontario from acid rain pollution? And people gave roughly the same number.

        Point is, the vast majority of people are black and white thinkers. You’re either cleaning pollution, or you’re not. 100% of the party supports cutting off aid to Israel, or they’re all literally committing genocide. You are merely one of the vast majority.

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
          0·
          6 days ago

          What are you talking about? What do lakes in Canada have to do with the fact that the Democratic Party is fully institutionally committed to fully supporting Israel and its extermination campaign?

            • kreskin@lemmy.world
              0·
              5 days ago

              Democrats have several members who have called for ending aid to Israel.

              Like 3 right. so 99% the same. So we’re back to telling people to be ok with just slightly less evil. Whcih was tried in the last election and failed spectacularly.

              • rational_lib@lemmy.world
                0·
                5 days ago

                15 Senate Dems vote to cancel billions in Israeli military aid

                There’s 49 senate Democrats, which means 30.6% of Senate Democrats have voted for ending aid to Israel. 0% of Republican senators voted to cancel aid to Israel.

                Furthermore Republicans absolutely love to abuse pro-Palestine people in the worst ways they can, including arresting and deporting pro-Palestine people and cutting off funding for colleges that allow you to protest. I don’t think that’s “slightly less” evil.

                Finally even “slightly less” evil is by definition less evil. Getting in a car crash at 80 MPH is only slightly less likely to kill you than getting in a crash at 90 mph. So what’s the point of hitting the brakes?

                To be honest, to someone who’s observed this conflict for a long time, your side is getting its ass kicked. Israel has taken more land for 8 decades and no one is stopping them as they take more. You need every last advantage if you want to turn the tide. Don’t be lazy, make the necessary distinctions between those who might help you and those who will do whatever a judge will allow them to do to harm you.

                • kreskin@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  3 days ago

                  Not a bad point. 70% of dem leadership being in support of war crimes in exchange for $ is a lot better than the 100% that the republicans have. Still not great but I’ll take it.