I think it’s lyrics from nine inch nails

Problem being I don’t know how that would work, especially since banks would probably hate freedom respecting systems.

Yeah, that’s the thing, I don’t think it’s possible without becoming as evil as the alternative. If it is, I’m all for it. But my freedom comes first.

Australia will lose cash over time. All first world countries will. You can’t stop “progress”. It’s just a matter of how long, and then how long until you are not a citizen without Google play on your phone. Or considered disabled, which is already happening.

I’ll be honest that I don’t know how it works because I never cared. What I know is that it doesn’t work with root or most roms, it removes my freedom because my phone can’t be “trusted”, so any other issue it has is not important. Even if it was more private than cash. It needs Google to “trust” my phone and I really, seriously trust a thief more than Google.

Cards are another massive issue but it’s a problem so widespread that there’s nothing I can do about it anymore. I use cash whenever I can but I know humanity and it will die soon because people don’t care.

And later tap to pay will be mandatory and if you don’t have spyware (Google play, apple) on your phone you can’t buy anything anymore.

The present is bad, the future is horrible.

Not that I own all these, but what do they have to do with my phone? I don’t see any connection to those except where I wanted to create it.

I’m not stopping you from wanting your apple/Linux phone. Or anyone from making it. I’m just saying that I believe that my interests are similar to a lot of people who care about open source, and therefore:

-The people who care about open source will not support that enough to be successfull (currently, as more people keep saying stuff like “I just can’t live without this convenience” it might change).

-The people who care about those conveniences that much don’t care about open source, privacy or freedom, and they won’t support it either. They will only support it if it’s even more convenient and lazy, and for that the apple/Linux phone would have to be even more evil than the current options.

So in my mind it’s a dead end, and I personally I don’t support it. But go for it! And I do believe that over times those conveniences will be seen more and more as needs and soon we might have a Linux phone I wouldn’t want to use. But good for those who want it.

BUT just to be clear, I desperately want a Linux phone, yes! But my concerns are stuff like: does the hardware work well? does the camera work well? Does the GPS work well? What about signal with the telecoms? Battery lifre? You know, mostly hardware related with the software.

Tap to pay, car play, siri, all those things can be on the list, but way down on the bottom.

That’s a bit extreme. Some of those are not linked.

Yes you can not have cloud pictures without having to trust the server. But you can have an open source, inspected system that uses gps without any related data being shared. Gps doesn’t send data, it’s the system choice to create a way to send it to someone. You can have a Linux phone that doesn’t chose to do that.

You can have convenience with privacy, but the companies offering those services don’t want that, nor do the consumers care.

And those consumers would not care about a Linux phone.

It’s not the existence of the option. It’s the requirements it brings.

Which companies will this phone need to shake hands for that to work? What price will they have to pay? What risks does it bring to my privacy on that phone? What requirements will they have? Banks, car companies, credit card companies etc are not the kind of company I want to see involved in my system.

If magically you can have those agreements without any risk for me, then I’m happy with it. But it’s impossible. You want a different product than mine with those needs.

I need freedom and trust in my system and I would like convenience. You need convenience and would like freedom and trust. It’s a matter of how much you have to sacrifice of one to get the other. It’s a personal choice.

For example, even before Android shitified itself, tap to pay wouldn’t work if you have root or most custom roms. Is it the price I have to pay for your option? Limit how I can use my phone so that Banks can trust it? Imagine if I couldn’t use sudo on Linux because someone wants to bend over to a bank?

I would look for a different system.

Or, touch wood, using cash!

Imagine the horror. Something that can even work if there’s no internet at all, like the cave man used…

Or, sarcasm aside, besides working properly offline, it doesn’t give money to evil companies like visa. Then with the phone there’s yet another evil company profiting from you. And giving people the idea that it’s impossible to live without doing so.

It’s a little extra convenience for those who like it, sure, but it’s crazy to say they can’t live without it.

That’s the problem. The things you think “people” need is what they already have and it can’t be different. “I want to trust everything on a company online but I want my data to be private and safe.” You have to choose. For those people who think they “need” what you say, they already have apple and Google.

Just like Linux was never meant to replicate windows “features” like cortana and others, and it didn’t, and it works for those who don’t want those things which is why they want Linux.

The requirements for Linux to have your “needs” would make me not want it, and then it would just be a poor version of apple without the trillions of dollars that come with it. It wouldn’t please either side.

The things open source people care will always be a minority. It’s sad but it’s the reality.

Although i use android i really, really don’t want Google stuff on my pc. I use android because it’s the only viable choice on mobile. But on pc I’ll avoid chromium as much a i can. And having installed many roms the hard way before i saw no reason to make an exception.

Plus i don’t like the browser doing something like that where i don’t know what it’s doing. If it was on firefox maybe i would trust it more, but even then…

Ah, I didn’t do it that way… I think. I can’t remember. I certainly remember not wanting to because I don’t trust that way. Also I use firefox and I doubted it would work. I don’t know.

I agree. It’s just that you said it’s easy.

Maybe you were referring to unlocking the phone, which is really easy on stock android if you know how.

The day we don’t have the choice anymore is the day i stop using android. Or smart phones at all if the alternative is apple.

One thing i don’t usually see people mentioning is that personal data is money. Money is power. Do you want to give that company more power?

I absolutely do not want to make apple more powerful. With Android i can at least choose a company i dislike less, or even like, and give the power to then. Then i can even remove Google from the phone and not give them power. It may not be easy but it’s in the license of Android, while not so with Apple.

And that applies to every thing related to privacy to me. Do i want to make this company powerful? No? Is there an alternative? Then I’ll try that if i can.

If it’s too difficult to find an alternative i try to live with it. It depends on how much i hate the company and how hard is it to change.

My own privacy, funny enough, is not really that important to me.

As a GrapheneOS user, and someone who hates apple and would rather not have a phone than bend to apple, and while i agree with most of what you said, i would not expect the majority of the users to be able to install graphene. I don’t personally know anyone i would expect to be able to do by themselves. It’s easy for you. It wasn’t super easy for me, it would be difficult for most people.