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Adam Kadmon@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 years ago

Not sure how the girl's skin tone is relevant, but apart from that...

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Not sure how the girl's skin tone is relevant, but apart from that...

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Adam Kadmon@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 years ago
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  • Haus@kbin.social
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    2 years ago

    Basing your opinions on socialism on how Russia implemented it makes about as much sense as basing an opinion on Democracy on how Putin has implemented it.

    • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      How the USSR implemented socialism was pretty great in practice, the real history of it has just been hidden from you behind the thick fog of cold-war anticommunist propaganda.

      Here’s a good intro video: Michael Parenti - Reflections on the overthrow of the USSR

      • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        Yellow Parenti is best Parenti

      • teft@startrek.website
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        2 years ago

        Anyone mentions soviets suck and the tankies come out of the woodwork.

        “USsR was just misunderstood. Swearsies.”

        • Catfish [she/her]@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          Learn to have a conversation.

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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        A lot of people don’t realize that the Soviet Union was seen as a bastion of democracy before the cold war, because it genuinely got a lot right.

        In fact, it was democratic to a fault. Ultimately it was the people who voted to bring capitalism into the country. It was all downhill from there.

    • sudo22@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Legit question, what country is a better real world example?

      • Soup@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        Communism, like capitalism, is an extreme that has certain, very difficult to achieve, requirements. Capitalism needs everyone to be morally decent in order for companies to focus on winning customers through innovation instead of propganda and lobbying, and to accept losses instead of whining. Even the transition into communism is incredibly complicated and technically what where the USSR was stuck, and once there you have to hope that the rest of the world went along with it because it’ll work either on increbily small scales(individual companies, for example) or on a global scale but not really on a mid-sized scale. Plus in both you have basic greed and people who are literally just born narcissitic or legitimately psychotic.

        Extreme ideologies are great thought experiments but rarely have any kind of well-developed protections built and are pretty fragile.

        If you want a better answer, look at the quality of life in countries with stronger regulations and more communism-according-to-North America systems. In the heavily privatised U.S. there are a lot of people who live absolutely shit lives due to an abyssmal lack of protections. Even in Canada, which is far too close to the U.S. here, at least a homeless person can recieve some level of medical assistance including major surgeries and Covid stimulus was more than a cheap joke.

        Extreme

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    What people who lived in the Soviet union and other socialist states have to say:

    • A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country’s economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country’s switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary’s integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.

    • The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

    • Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an “illegitimate state.” In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.

    • A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -“during the time of socialism”. The survey focused on the respondents’ views on the transition “from socialism to capitalism”, and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito. The standard of living during Tito’s rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as “more or less the same”. 45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent choosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.

    • 75% of Russians have expressed increasingly positive opinions about the Soviet Union over the years. Only a small portion of those surveyed said they had negative associations with the Soviet Union. The economic deficit, long lines and coupons were named by 4% of respondents each, while the Iron Curtain, economic stagnation and political repressions were named by 1% each, the Levada Center said.

    • Adult mortality increased enormously in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union when the Soviet system collapsed 30 years ago. https://archive.ph/9Z12u

    • Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

    This study shows that unprecedented mortality crisis struck Eastern Europe during the 1990s, causing around 7 million excess deaths. The first quantitative analysis of the association between deindustrialization and mortality in Eastern Europe.

    • https://academic.oup.com/cje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cje/beac072/7081084?guestAccessKey=01c8dd9f-af1c-48b3-b271-eb5d3a45017c&login=false
    • dontcarebear@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      deleted by creator

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        The trajectory Hungary took after transition to capitalism mirrors what happened in most post USSR states. This just further supports the point that the communist system was better.

        • dontcarebear@lemmy.ml
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          deleted by creator

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            2 years ago

            What happened in countries like Hungary and Poland is a direct result of the transition to capitalism however. What’s more this transition happened under the best possible conditions. The transition happened largely democratically without any violent revolutions, and these countries got support from the west to soften economic impact of the transition. Yet, despite all that we see that majority of post Soviet countries end up going in a similar direction under capitalism. Again, Hungary isn’t an outlier here.

            • dontcarebear@lemmy.ml
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              deleted by creator

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                2 years ago

                Thing is that bad management, corruption, and so on, have happened in every human society that has ever existed. A political system isn’t magically going to change that. What a political system can do however is create different selection pressures for behavior. Capitalist system selects for different kinds of behaviors than a communist one. As we see with the case of transition from communism to capitalism in eastern Europe, the selection pressures of capitalism result in far worse things happening than under communism.

                • dontcarebear@lemmy.ml
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                  deleted by creator

  • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    2 years ago

    This you? https://hexbear.net/comment/3889149

    Typical Russian bullshit. I hope the dwindling, future generations of Russian scum know why they’re pariahs, unable to travel outside of their smoldering wreck of a never-great, failed state

    Cause honestly this comes off as incredibly racist and nationalist.

    • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      2 years ago

      Holy shit lmao

      • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        2 years ago

        Who would have thunk the anticommunist was racist.

        • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          2 years ago

          And a Matt Walsh fan

          • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            2 years ago

            Transphobic too? How surprising.

            • Adam Kadmon@lemmy.mlOP
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              2 years ago

              Wow. I comment on discussions of Communism and suddenly I’m afraid of transsexuals? Where is this coming from?

          • Adam Kadmon@lemmy.mlOP
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            2 years ago

            What on Earth are you talking about?

        • Adam Kadmon@lemmy.mlOP
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          2 years ago

          Once again, are you suggesting there’s such a thing as the Russian race? For real?

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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      What? The guy subscribing to anti-white racism rhetoric would also be a raging fascist? Say it isn’t so.

    • Adam Kadmon@lemmy.mlOP
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      Yeah that’s me! Wow, you really took the time. Nice.

      LOL how is it racist? You do realise “Russian” is not a race, right?

      And how is it “nationalist”? Because it mentions a nationality?

    • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      Yeah this is fairly common opinion of russian occupants in post-soviet countries outside russia. Wonder why.

      • Catfish [she/her]@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        Because they’re racist bloodthirsty tyrants that get their funding and debts from NATO countries.

  • spacesweedkid27 @lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    2 things:

    1. The victors write history

    2. After Lenin the USSR was not really communist anymore but more really a totalitarian state that didn’t believe in the values of communism. Just like China.

    Everything would probably have been better if Lenin didn’t die so fast and then Trotsky would have ruled.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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      Trotsky would have ruled.

      Mask off trot lmao

      • idiomaddict@feddit.de
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        To be clear, the alternative here is Stalin. There are like only five people who would be worse choices

  • Titou@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    Never did any research, did you ?

  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    “They talk of the failure of socialism, however, where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia, and in Latin America?”

  • Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    ※The person who lived in the USSR was born in December of 1991

  • noodle@feddit.uk
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    On Lemmy it is more like 40 something year old neckbeards that haven’t seen the light of day in 2 decades. They claim to struggle to make friends at parties but could easily run a country.

  • Flyberius [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Some small business tyrant, who left the USSR when they were four and who doesn’t pay his staff, telling me how bad the Soviet Union was.

  • Uniquitous@lemmy.one
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    LOL, I knew this sub was digging for old memes but bringing back actual red-baiting? chef’s kiss

  • FuckyWucky [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    • pjhenry1216@kbin.social
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      Income share isn’t actually a good indicator of anything on its own. One would at the very least need to provide some sort of inflation chart and some sort of equivalent to a consumer price index. Like, it wouldn’t mean much if they all had the same income if that income couldn’t buy bread for example. not saying that was or was not the case, just using an example of how the given charts are meaningless on their own. That you provided them without even trying to provide context means you’re unaware of this and are ignorant to the issue or you’re actively misleading people.

  • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    Pretty much Lemmy. I grew up in a communist civil war, hosing blood off my sidewalk was a weekly chore, the neighbors vanishing cause they pissed someone off and were labeled red. But yeah, Lemmy teens, you guys know all about it! /S

    • CluckN@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Erm pushes up glasses that wasn’t real communism because real communism works.

      • Album@lemmy.ca
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        Lol ya right?!

        The NSDAP was a real socialist party.

        The Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea is actually democratic and governed by the people.

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      Did you still use money to buy goods and services? Was your father able to do speak up at work? Change jobs? Go on vacations?

      Just because something called itself communism didn’t make it communism. The state owning everything is the opposite of communism. In extreme communism, there isn’t even a damn state as we know it.

      The people in the Democratic Peoples’ Republic of Korea do not live in a democracy nor a republic.

      • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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        So communism = god?

        A fictional impossibility

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          In many ways, yes. It is absolutely an ideal that is not compatible with current reality.

          That’s why anyone who’s remotely realistic about it understands it’s an end state of pushing for anarcho-socialistic policies, one that maybe cannot be achieved. Like saying, “Humanity will walk on the moon.” when it’s 1910. Conceivable? Kinda’. Possible? Hell no.

      • mutter9355@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 years ago

        The ussr may not have been communist, but it was definitely the initial goal. The idea of a revolution that leads to a dictatorship of the proletariat is inherently flawed. You just end up replacing a corrupt government with another corrupt government.

  • Stalins_Spoon@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    I wonder why communist leaders are some of the most popular leaders in their former socialist republics 🧐🧐

    • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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      Because opposition goes to the gulag?

      • Stalins_Spoon@lemmygrad.ml
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        Why would he found the Bloc of Communists and Non-Partisans then?

        • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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          He founded a sub-party of the communist party, and according to the wiki you linked, their ideology was literally stalinism. How is that in any way oppositional to Stalin?

          • Stalins_Spoon@lemmygrad.ml
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            1. Stalinism doesn’t exist, there is only Marxism-Leninism
            2. Many pro-market reformers were non-partisans, although some were in the CPSU
            • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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              Stalinism is a subset of ML, as I learned from the wiki page you linked.

              And OK, you’re right, Stalin wasn’t a brutal authoritarian leader because he allowed non partisans into a ML party that he created, and we’ll just ignore the 1.7 million gulag deaths.

              Actually, I’ll do you a favor. You already know all the dead people under Stalin I’m going to bring up in this thread, so why don’t you go ahead and just defend them all now and save us both some time?

              • Stalins_Spoon@lemmygrad.ml
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                Stalin wasn’t a ‘Stalinist’ he was a Marxist-Leninist by word and action, most famous gulag prisoner Alexander Solzhenitsyn received treatment for cancer whilst in it, and vast majority returned alive. I don’t see how this is different to any other prison system in the world, just another piece of over-exaggerated Cold War propaganda for Western audiences.

                I do agree this exchange is pointless, have a good rest of your day

    • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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      Because they are not. Stalin for example was a mass murderer just like Hitler. So why would anybody like him?

      • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

        Here is a mainstream Jewish holocaust survivor saying equating the communists and fascists is holocaust trivialization.

        • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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          The difference is that Hitler was after one specific group of people and wanted to eradicate them. Nobody says that Stalin was as bad as Hitler, bit his death count was just as high. He killed millions of political enemies or people in the regions he conquered.

          • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            Hey, whoever told you those numbers is lying to you. The nazis killed 11 million people in the holocaust and 26-27 million soviet citizens. High estimates for people killed by the USSR outside of defeating nazism, failures, and sabotage is in the 100,000s, which is noticeably lower than capitalist oligarchies like the US and Britain. Also killing people based on them wanting to bring back old caste systems through violence is morally distinct from racism based mass killings.

            The difference is that Hitler was after one specific group of people and wanted to eradicate them.

            Also this isnt true, Jewish people, Roma, nuerodivergent people, disabled people, trade unionists socialists, communists, gay people, trans people, the list goes on.

            Also you’re still equating the two after being told doing so is holocaust denial. You’re saying “well they killed equivalent amounts of people!”

            • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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              How is saying Stalin wasn’t a great guy either denying the holocaust?

              Also this isnt true, Jewish people, Roma, nuerodivergent people, disabled people, trade unionists socialists, communists, gay people, trans people, the list goes on.

              Yes ofc, but a big percentage of the deportated people were Jewish. They killed two thirds of the European Jewish population.

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

              High estimates for people killed by the USSR outside of defeating nazism, failures, and sabotage is in the 100,000s

              No: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

              • dialectical_analysis_of_gock [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                deleted by creator

                • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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                  This isn’t about communism and fascism. It’s about two asholes who killed millions. And I never trivialize the holocaust. I am just saying that Stalin killed a lot of people too. And more than just a few thousand. 20 million is a lot of dead people. So mb not as bad as Hitler but still realy not a great person. So the comparison to Hitler still stands.

              • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                How is saying Stalin wasn’t a great guy either denying the holocaust?

                You aren’t saying that though, you are saying that they killed an equivalent amount of people. You’re morally equating them. Also even the CIA didn’t consider stalin a dictator in their since declassified internal documents, treating him as one is another way you were taught to equate the USSR with nazi Germany.

                Yes ofc, but a big percentage of the deportated people were Jewish. They killed two thirds of the European Jewish population.

                I know, that isn’t the only group they targeted though. I was simply correcting an inaccuracy in what you said.

                No:

                Sorry, I thought it was high hundreds of thousands but it was actually a million. My mistake. Still, that is in no way similar to killing upwards of 35 million people in the name of bigotry.

                • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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                  some historians estimated that the numbers killed by Stalin’s regime were 20 million or higher. (Same link as before: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin)

                  It’s more that a million.

                  I don’t know why you made this discussion about if he was as bad as Hitler. I never said so. I’m just saying that those numbers are not that far apart from each other. Thus making Stalin a murderer of millions. This discussion originated in a guy basicly saying that Stalin was indeed a great leader and personality. Which he is not.

                  And he willingly allied with Hitler. So moral he was OK with the crimes Hitler committed. At the same Time he deported a lot of people himself. Not as many and not as organized as Hitler, but still in the millions.

                  Stalin was a bad guy and Hitler was way worse. Happy? Just because that other guy was worse they can still play in the same category. “People who killed millions and deported a lot of people”

          • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            The difference is that Hitler was after one specific group of people and wanted to eradicate them.

            Either you have no idea what you’re talking about, or you’re just a straight up nazi apologist.

            Which one are you?

          • WideningGyro [any]@hexbear.net
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            2 years ago

            Can you point us to the exact page of the Black Book you get your numbers from? I want to read along at home

            • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

              • MF_COOM [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                chefs-kiss

                Wild that using a source like this with a straight face doesn’t cause you to pause and wonder if maybe there’s anything to question about the US academy and their hegemonic representation of history.

              • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                They literally say that the intentional killing was around 1 million. Wikipedia is a notably right wing anticommunist source, and they say a million intentional deaths.

                So you were lying?

  • Vitaly@feddit.uk
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    2 years ago

    Facts, I hate communism

    • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      Communism as a concept is a brilliant thing. The problem is that in the past it never worked the way it was intended, but managed to cause a lot of harm.

      The problem is that the 14 year old white girl here still thinks with all her heart that countries like China are communist and in generall the perfect place to be, which is just not true.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        This is a silly argument because actual real world communism has to be compared to other real world alternative we have available which is capitalism. By every measure capitalism has created far more horrors than communism has.

  • ZILtoid1991@kbin.social
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    2 years ago

    Personally I find it going this way:

    • some person, who at least knows what socialism is, even if they’re not the most well-read in the subject,
    • some way better read one, but thinks state control of enterprises suffice and trusts the state way too much as long as it has hammers and sickles,
    • some capitalism fan, who thinks socialism is evil, and that constructon company CEOs are workers, but underpaid office workers are “elites”.

    Rarely you get a very well read one, who understands their stuff, or the old Soviet bloc ex-communist, who switched because the local far-right party started to be very concerned about “work morals”, and also think the construction company CEO is a worker and “against the elite”.

    • TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee
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      2 years ago

      The problem is the way that most of those communism perfect people inform themselves. They usually know a lot of stuff about a certain topic where they can argue anyone to deth who doesn’t know as much about a topic. And because they know that much more than the other person they can use wrong statements that sound right in the mass of correct information. Then you get people who know everything about Kuba and are 100% sure it’s a democracy.

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