Hello, something that has been bothering me of late is how exactly to I know if a game idea is going to be good before making the full game or even the demo. In short I’ve released three games before and the last one of them was a comedy narrative game kind of like The Stanley Parable. I really like the genre and before moving on from it, I wanted to make another narrative game, but this time with a dark twist.
Reading random stuff on the internet, I stumbled upon one of the most controversial experiments in history - The Milgram Experiment (basically innocent people were asked to torture another person to see if they will obey). I’ve always been interested in ethics and moral choices in games and stuff like The Trolley Problem, so I decided to make a game out all of these themes where the psychological horror comes from the fact that you are the one that gets to face moral dilemmas and decide if and how you should kill a subject. All of your choices during testing have an impact on the ending and I have planned 8 different endings. At the start of the game it’s unclear who or why is making you do this, but over the course of the game you will get little bits of information that help you piece the story.
So that is kind of my elevator pitch of the game. First question is - does this sound compelling to you? Would you yourself play something like that or watch a streamer play it? Second question is how do I validate if this idea is good and worth pursuing? Currently around 20% of the game is complete and around 80% of the demo. I do have a Steam page of the game that has garnered around 800 wishlists and am holding off on official announcement trailer until I have more good footage. Do I talk to friends? Do I ask more people on forums? Do I need something playable that I need to put in front of people? How should I approach this?
Thank you for reading this, any comment or idea is appreciated!
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Interesting idea.
I think the moral choices people make when gaming are often different from the choices they’d make IRL. Who amongst us hasn’t taken down an NPC with a shotgun just because they were irritating?
You can get closer to an accurate reading of a player’s moral compass if you can make them emotionally involved with the characters or the game. If you have been manipulated into caring about the fate of an NPC, you’re more likely to go out of your way to help them, even if it is too the detriment of your own character.
It’s that successful emotional manipulation that, IMO, is one of the signs of genuine art. No idea how to accomplish this. Good luck with the game, like I say it’s an interesting idea.
Thanks! So the player will have access to personal info of the NPC’s - diary, recordings, letters and so on. They would have to establish their character and personality and kind of judge them. I’m thinking this mechanic will add exactly what you’re suggesting.
Oh wow okay that makes it intriguing! I’m guessing some NPC info will suggest that they’ve done bad things but they had a traumatic background? Others will be upstanding Christian Sunday school teachers who are suspected of domestic abuse but nothing proven? The shabby secret millionaire, the person who will always help anyone out but has a ten thousand yard stare? The little guy who’s scared of everything and everyone pities. The pretty woman who committed the unforgivable sin of having a sex life. The wealthy salesman who knows his customers will spend years paying for useless crap. Etc etc
Yeah you could do a lot with that!
Still, I kinda think you’ve got to involve the player on an emotional level for it to really bite em hard. You could definitely do that through diary, letters, recordings etc. You could actually make it pretty fuckin dark, especially if the player suffers consequences for not hurting anyone.
If you can do it right.
Hey if it works out, sounds like something I’d buy.
Imo when making a game, you should make something that satisfies you. Chances are if you like something then there are other people who like it too. And if it turns out the game isn’t as successful as you hoped, then at the very least, you have something that you enjoyed making.
Yeah, well I’ve been contemplating a game about moral choices and psychological experiments for a long time. Three years maybe, so I hope I’m on the right track : )
Streamers will not give you good user feedback. They are not playing the game for themselves, they are playing for an audience.
It is very good that you think about validating your expections early in the process. That way you still have time to change the direction of your game if you need to. I think the best way would be to release the demo to a smaller audience, like itch.io.
Anyway, good luck with your game.
Thank you, my experience with itch is that audience there isn’t very big and people don’t leave much feedback (unless your game really explodes!)
Can’t get feedback if no one plays it and a demo is the easiest way for someone to play it.
What’s the risk of creating the demo? Is there a downside?
Sounds like an awesome idea.
Thank you!
It sounds interesting to me. Whether or not I would play it myself depends on knowing more or playing a demo since it’s not the type of game I usually play, but if someone I know or one of the few streamers I follow was into it I would definitely be interested to watch.
I think it’s important to make the game you want to make and trust your vision. It looks good so far and I’m following you on Steam now to keep an eye on it. Good luck!
Thanks for the kind words. The demo will drop sooner or later so don’t hesitate to leave some feedback :)
My suggestion would always be the old fashioned way. Prototype it yourself and test it. Though with the nature of yours it sounds like there’s not much you can do with a prototype without just making a whole demo. My suggestion would be to just give it a shot and, like regdog said, validate the expectations early so you can change directions.
As for what I think about it. It’s an interesting idea, especially the Milgram angle, but i’m worried if i watched a streamer play it, there’s not much to see in the game to warrant me to pick it up myself (even with the multiple endings).
Thank you! Yeah so the game takes place over 7 days or 7 tests. The demo would be 2 days and the prototype one. I figured that there won’t be much difference between proto and demo and I’m just going for the demo. As for the streamers thing - yeah that is always the danger. This is why I’m going for so many endings and hoping people would want to see what happens. Many won’t of course.
The 8 endings are definitely the best way to mix the game up in my opinion. For the Demo length i’d say 2 days is definitely a good number without playing too many cards. Then again, it’s your game, so you’d know best. Regardless though, I know how rough being a game dev can be myself, i wish you luck! I hope to see your game one day, it sounds like a genuinely interesting concept
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement! Yeah I feel the beginning process is the hardest - when you haven’t still figured things out. After you know what you’re making it’s kind of easy just to finish it so I do have some way to go.
I feel that lol. The beginning is always the hardest. There’s just so much to do and work out. When I was starting out I was so overwhelmed by it that I pinned a quote to my wall just to motivate me. Once you have that plan all figured out though it becomes so much easier
Well…
One thing is you can’t know if a ‘game idea’ is a good one before battle test it.
On one hand it’s similar to writing a book or shooting a movie. Sometimes most mundane narratives have something that ‘clicks’, making it a hit. And sometimes most interesting ones have bad execution, to become instant failures.
On the other hand, of course there are some understanding about ‘what is entertaining’ and ‘how to make things fun’. There are lots of discovered rules, tropes, approaches that worked so far. Like, Game of Thrones books always meant to be a cash cow TV series, and you see traces of almost all the rules that makes a book a good TV material. So there are many sources about narrative and game design that can guide you through your journey.
Of course the concepts discussed in these sources aren’t definitive and open to interpretation. But they helped me dearly exploring ideas and hand down better experiences.
Some I can recommend are,
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Art of Game Design (Jesse Schell): It comes with a deck of cards which is very valuable for self-feedbacking.
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The Game Narrative Toolbox
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How Games Move Us
With games, it’s ‘vertical slice’s, like preparing a 10 minute condensed version of a game. You can gather lots of feedback with that. Every game had that at one point. Balatro had that, GTA 6 had that, as well as “What Remains of Edith Finch” had that. If you can pique interest with a vertical slice, it’s mostly good idea to pursue the rest from that point.
Thank you! I have the Jesse Schell book, but I started another about making games that was about how games created experiences. When I read it I will move to Art of Game Design. So far the first three chapters have been very insightful!
So how did your experience is going with lenses? Do they help you with self-diagnosing so far?
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Not many mentioned that but maybe a publisher can help ?
My understanding is that the right publisher could give you good feedback for your game and can have good knowledge of what works or not. I’m not saying like some big publishers but one that shares your vision for the game and could help.
From what I know publishers tend to offer help when you prove somehow that you have a hot game…
The aesthetics of your game look great. I think people will appreciate a demo, to give them a feel for the game. You can have demo on your steam page or maybe on itch.io .
Thank you, I’m going for the body cam style because it looks very realistic and also fits with the game narrative - you are part of an experiment and somebody is documenting the footage
Honestly sounds like an interesting concept. From I was.gling in blind at least your idea sounds interesting enough to warrant giving a demo a try.
My only word of caution is that you said you wanted to make a dark comedy about ethics and that’s going to be a tough sell at the best of times. That isn’t to say that there is no audience for something with gallows/macabre/dark satire humor, just that that group is small from the jump.
One of the more interesting takes I’ve seen on the trolley problem is the “double and pass” wrinkle. Where it starts with you and the person you value the most on the track on one side and a random stranger on the other. And your choice is to either sacrifice your loved one or spare both passing the decision on to the next person where it’s doubled. As in their loved one versus two strangers.
