You would think that, wouldn’t you?

I understand that gender is made up and doesn’t matter. There is nothing girly or manly.

For some the optionality of it is less important than the notion that if it’s performative, you can be bad at it and therefore make yourself an acceptable target for abuse, and besides that the idea that some roles can be restricted to only those with a certain set of physical characteristics is deeply ingrained in many, be that in terms gender, career, or what have you.

In fact words all those words are a bunch of gibberish and neither the world nor reality works like that. I can just question the vague and often circular premises of that argument and we’re back to square zero.

Not against the sentiment, but you’re never going to get anywhere with that pseudoacademic bullshit.

Edit: hahaha just keep proving my point. You’re the same as them- dogmatic fanatics with no arguments that hold up for shit.

The only way to live life without pissing somebody off is by not doing anything worth doing.

Has my therapist been talking to you?

Truly. Thanks for being a decent human being.

Hey that’s for real man

So what you’re saying is, it will involve being painted, no matter what?

I imagine you’d also support her in being a man if she wanted to

This is why I like it when I see men wear skirts/kilts, wear eyeliner and/or paint their nails. It’s not something I’m into but I think it’s cool when I see it.

I’ve had that discussion before.

Gender roles, and thus gender presentation, are cultural for the most part. Some are common enough to multiple cultures that it approaches being just human culture.

But even in western (us, canada, europe) cultures, there have been periods where the presentation of masculinity would be considered feminine in other eras. So gender roles & presentation aren’t fixed in a given culture.

If I, regardless of what my genitals are, present as a man, then I am effectively the same as whatever a man is in my culture. If that also includes taking on the gender roles of “man”, then that’s another layer.

However, this also means that when enough men shift their presentation and roles, anyone holding to the previous roles and presentation are now “less” a man in the cultural sense. It really, truly is a majority rules situation, and the minority are what get relabeled (usually).

The more men that reject an arbitrary paradigm of masculinity, the more we shift to an open, loose definition of what is and isn’t masculine, with the eventual possibility that gender becomes so loose in definition that masculine and feminine become irrelevant terms, if the labels also lose relevance to the majority. And I believe that if enough people reject fixed gender paradigms, the terms would inevitably cease to matter.

I mean, we’ve already started to add qualifiers. We have traditional gender roles as a specific thing as separate from current gender roles.

This isn’t to deny that hormones and genetics will push people into behaviors that are linked to gender because they’re mostly linked to sex. But even with those pressures, we usually have room how we express those behaviors.

It’s why I always tell folks, particularly younger folks, to not worry much about labels. Be who you are, as long as who you are isn’t a douche, and you’ll eventually find the labels that feel right. And there’s a good chance you’ll end up shifting your self over time anyway, which is fine. As long as you don’t fixate on labels as defining the person, the self, you can freely shift labels as the self shifts. It’s when you pick a label and think that you have to fit it in all ways, forever, that you run into trouble.

So, fuck yeah. If you feel “girly”, be girly. Enjoy that shit. Be your best self. It’ll eventually work out :)

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You can’t gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you’re prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.

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Define ‘these people’?

If nostalgia ever kicks in, German is my first language :P

As a leather woman I do want people to know how the community actually formed. Motorcycling was a socially acceptable hobby and served two purposes: it as a hobby has just always been useful for men dealing with ptsd who aren’t comfortable with therapy (it’s worse than therapy but it’s better than nothing and it’s not like 1948 Americans were ready to hear that John can’t process that he killed someone and that he fell in love with a soldier who died in his arms), and it served as a convenient excuse to get out of town into the middle of nowhere where nobody will see gay sadomasochism unless they came to see it.

It’s never been a parody of the right, but it has had parodies of what was expected of them. The Nazi fetishists were different folks usually. Though we did have people wearing parodies of us uniforms

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Gowron eyes intensify

Give it all you got, to fight to the top.

So we can know your story!

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Ahahahahbahaa

As an amab man with long hair and emotions that is frequently misgenedered (even with facial hair) yall are down voting something that is far too true

Yeah, the “can always tell” crowd. AKA “I don’t think this person is attractive enough to be cis.”

Historically less so. Even back in the 80s lots of girls i knew and thought of as tom boys. Where forced to dress and act girlie by there parents. Further back you go more limits there were.

A real Girly-Man wears blue armor with white toilet seats painted on the shoulders. Rowboat.