Not a guy, but the one that really gets me is willfully incompetence - particularly around household or family chores (and the mental load associated with them).
I work from home so I typically do the majority of the cleaning; I don’t mind because I’m a bit of a clean freak anyway.
What I found odd is when my wife’s family from Mexico were visiting she turned into a maid and would shoo me away from things like washing a single dish (for example).
Not sure if it was cultural or what but it definitely threw me off — I don’t want her family thinking I’m making her do everything all the time.
100% a cultural thing. Depending on what part of Mexico they’re from, she may not want them to know that you do any chores. If a woman can’t handle all of the chores herself, it’s seen as a failing.
Super fucked up, but Latin America is in fact super fucked up.
Yeah, sorry but this one is just counterproductive. Guys just don’t give a fuck. No one is going around “ooh, what if I pretend I can’t do this task so she then has to do it”. That’s just patriarchy and gender roles for you. Maybe try to have a conversation about the subject of chores without sticking the “you’re evil” tag on the other person. Well, for anything in life really. Also mental load is there for anyone, I see no point in bringing it up in this context. The dudes have to deal with a fair share of mental load as well, specially with all the emotional neglect and immaturity.
This is why I think weaponized incompetence is a better term than willful incompetence.
I don’t think it’s even always intentional, conscious, or willful. It’s just, well, “not giving a fuck”, and getting away with it because women are always around to deal with their shit.
Prepared to be roasted alive for this opinion but studies (undoubtedly of white, middle class, US undergrads) seem to indicate women find clutter and messes more psychologically distressing than men do.
I’m a man but I’ve had many deadbeat guys as roommates and I am definitely far more bothered by messes and clutter than they were so I kind of get this.
If you are the “mind it more” person, you will find yourself rage cleaning because the other person can wait you out as long as they want if they are taking you for granted and not concerned you’ll leave over this.
So there are two toxic traits here:
A willingness to wait out chores even if you know it’s angering people you are with.
A kind of willful blindness. “Honestly, I didn’t think it was that bad.”
The second one might be worse.
The first is excusable (plausible deniability) with the “men are oblivious” defense if the aggrieved party is not being overt in their request that a chore be done.
The second is a person (some women obviously do this, too) refusing to learn to empathize and recognize when things are getting to the point where it’s bothering the other person. From an interpersonal perspective this is probably more infuriating over the years.
I think you have a point, and it is indeed something different - if two people live together and simply have different preferences or care about different things, it’ll of course lead to some friction.
I think this goes both ways in most relationships. I keep bothering my girlfriend about the bathroom sink and the office desk we share; she complains about me keeping half dirty (half clean) clothes in a pile in the bedroom. That’s not what it’s about, though I think it can get easily confused.
It’s more about the “I don’t know how to use the washing machine/book bus tickets/change bags in the vacuum cleaner/cook a pie/change bedsheets/clean the toilet/make a vinegrette/change diapers/whatever”, where instead of an emphasis on learning the skill it’s only left to the other person.
It’s not all men, but it is common. I think it’s a systematic issue that men don’t carry the full responsibility for. They’re raised by mothers who do everything for them, and while their sisters are taught how to take care of themselves they are simply left to “be boys”. And then they go out in the world and find a woman who can effectively replace their mothers.
It’s the kind of guys who move away from home but keep going back to their mothers whenever they need laundry done.
I think the first trait is worse than the second. Waiting to do a chore knowing (1) it needs to be done, and (2) the other person will do it if you hold out long enough is such a jerk move. Although the second isn’t awesome either. I think it is safe to say, don’t do either of these things.
The second is a person TWO PEOPLE refusing to learn to empathize and recognize when things are getting to the point where it’s bothering the other person.
ftfy. I’m sick of society always thinking that men have to learn how to be cleaner. Maybe women should learn how to not freak out over a little mess sometimes.
The onus should not be 100% on men to change. It should be a compromise, and part of it is women learning to relax and undo the ingrained “everything must look perfect” toxic baggage that they have, just as much as men need to learn not to live in a pigsty just because mom isn’t around to clean up after you.
Agree about it not always being explicitly thought about. Weaponed also seemed to imply some sort of thought to me, but I couldn’t land on a good word.
Not a guy, but the one that really gets me is willfully incompetence - particularly around household or family chores (and the mental load associated with them).
It’s called “brokedishing” and choosing the right dish to break is an art form.
Damn, that’s way catchier than weaponized incompetence.
I work from home so I typically do the majority of the cleaning; I don’t mind because I’m a bit of a clean freak anyway.
What I found odd is when my wife’s family from Mexico were visiting she turned into a maid and would shoo me away from things like washing a single dish (for example).
Not sure if it was cultural or what but it definitely threw me off — I don’t want her family thinking I’m making her do everything all the time.
100% a cultural thing. Depending on what part of Mexico they’re from, she may not want them to know that you do any chores. If a woman can’t handle all of the chores herself, it’s seen as a failing.
Super fucked up, but Latin America is in fact super fucked up.
Oh, that’s interesting. Could be a family thing. Could also be just a good host thing.
Yeah, sorry but this one is just counterproductive. Guys just don’t give a fuck. No one is going around “ooh, what if I pretend I can’t do this task so she then has to do it”. That’s just patriarchy and gender roles for you. Maybe try to have a conversation about the subject of chores without sticking the “you’re evil” tag on the other person. Well, for anything in life really. Also mental load is there for anyone, I see no point in bringing it up in this context. The dudes have to deal with a fair share of mental load as well, specially with all the emotional neglect and immaturity.
“Guys don’t give a fuck.”
That’s it. That’s the toxic trait right there.
This is why I think weaponized incompetence is a better term than willful incompetence.
I don’t think it’s even always intentional, conscious, or willful. It’s just, well, “not giving a fuck”, and getting away with it because women are always around to deal with their shit.
Prepared to be roasted alive for this opinion but studies (undoubtedly of white, middle class, US undergrads) seem to indicate women find clutter and messes more psychologically distressing than men do.
I’m a man but I’ve had many deadbeat guys as roommates and I am definitely far more bothered by messes and clutter than they were so I kind of get this.
If you are the “mind it more” person, you will find yourself rage cleaning because the other person can wait you out as long as they want if they are taking you for granted and not concerned you’ll leave over this.
So there are two toxic traits here:
A willingness to wait out chores even if you know it’s angering people you are with.
A kind of willful blindness. “Honestly, I didn’t think it was that bad.”
The second one might be worse.
The first is excusable (plausible deniability) with the “men are oblivious” defense if the aggrieved party is not being overt in their request that a chore be done.
The second is a person (some women obviously do this, too) refusing to learn to empathize and recognize when things are getting to the point where it’s bothering the other person. From an interpersonal perspective this is probably more infuriating over the years.
I think you have a point, and it is indeed something different - if two people live together and simply have different preferences or care about different things, it’ll of course lead to some friction.
I think this goes both ways in most relationships. I keep bothering my girlfriend about the bathroom sink and the office desk we share; she complains about me keeping half dirty (half clean) clothes in a pile in the bedroom. That’s not what it’s about, though I think it can get easily confused.
It’s more about the “I don’t know how to use the washing machine/book bus tickets/change bags in the vacuum cleaner/cook a pie/change bedsheets/clean the toilet/make a vinegrette/change diapers/whatever”, where instead of an emphasis on learning the skill it’s only left to the other person.
It’s not all men, but it is common. I think it’s a systematic issue that men don’t carry the full responsibility for. They’re raised by mothers who do everything for them, and while their sisters are taught how to take care of themselves they are simply left to “be boys”. And then they go out in the world and find a woman who can effectively replace their mothers.
It’s the kind of guys who move away from home but keep going back to their mothers whenever they need laundry done.
I think the first trait is worse than the second. Waiting to do a chore knowing (1) it needs to be done, and (2) the other person will do it if you hold out long enough is such a jerk move. Although the second isn’t awesome either. I think it is safe to say, don’t do either of these things.
ftfy. I’m sick of society always thinking that men have to learn how to be cleaner. Maybe women should learn how to not freak out over a little mess sometimes.
The onus should not be 100% on men to change. It should be a compromise, and part of it is women learning to relax and undo the ingrained “everything must look perfect” toxic baggage that they have, just as much as men need to learn not to live in a pigsty just because mom isn’t around to clean up after you.
Agree about it not always being explicitly thought about. Weaponed also seemed to imply some sort of thought to me, but I couldn’t land on a good word.
I worry you may be misinterpreting the phrase in its particular context, and I’d hate to see that happen.
Kudos for weaving in the toxic trait of infantilizing women.
What in the Sam Hill …