• legolas@fedit.pl
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    28 days ago

    Apparently DeepSeek is lying, they were collecting thousands of NVIDIA chips against the US embargo and it’s not about the algorithm. The model’s good results come just from sheer chip volume and energy used. That’s the story I’ve heard and honeslty it sounds legit.

    Not sure if this questions has been answered though: if it’s open sourced, cant we see what algorithms they used to train it? If we could then we would know the answer. I assume we cant, but if we cant, then whats so cool about it being open source on the other hand? What parts of code are valuable there besides algorithms?

    • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      The open paper they published details the algorithms and techniques used to train it, and it’s been replicated by researchers already.

      • legolas@fedit.pl
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        28 days ago

        So are these techiques so novel and breaktrough? Will we now have a burst of deepseek like models everywhere? Cause that’s what absolutely should happen if the whole storey is true. I would assume there are dozens or even hundreds of companies in USA that are in a posession of similar number but surely more chips that Chinese folks claimed to trained their model on, especially in finance sector and just AI reserach focused.

        • ArchRecord@lemm.ee
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          27 days ago

          So are these techiques so novel and breaktrough?

          The general concept, no. (it’s reinforcement learning, something that’s existed for ages)

          The actual implementation, yes. (training a model to think using a separate XML section, reinforcing with the highest quality results from previous iterations using reinforcement learning that naturally pushes responses to the highest rewarded outputs) Most other companies just didn’t assume this would work as well as throwing more data at the problem.

          This is actually how people believe some of OpenAI’s newest models were developed, but the difference is that OpenAI was under the impression that more data would be necessary for the improvements, and thus had to continue training the entire model with additional new information, and they also assumed that directly training in thinking times was the best route, instead of doing so via reinforcement learning. DeepSeek decided to simply scrap that part altogether and go solely for reinforcement learning.

          Will we now have a burst of deepseek like models everywhere?

          Probably, yes. Companies and researchers are already beginning to use this same methodology. Here’s a writeup about S1, a model that performs up to 27% better than OpenAI’s best model. S1 used Supervised Fine Tuning, and did something so basic, that people hadn’t previously thought to try it: Just making the model think longer by modifying terminating XML tags.

          This was released days after R1, based on R1’s initial premise, and creates better quality responses. Oh, and of course, it cost $6 to train.

          So yes, I think it’s highly probable that we see a burst of new models, or at least improvements to existing ones. (Nobody has a very good reason to make a whole new model of a different name/type when they can simply improve the one they’re already using and have implemented)

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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      27 days ago

      It’s time for you to do some serious self-reflection about the inherent biases you believe about Asians Chinese people.

      • legolas@fedit.pl
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        27 days ago

        WTF dude. You mentioned Asia. I love Asians. Asia is vast. There are many countries, not just China bro. I think you need to do these reflections. Im talking about very specific case of Chinese Deepseek devs potentiall lying about the chips. The assumptions and generalizations you are thinking of are crazy.

        • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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          27 days ago

          And how do your feelings stand up to the fact that independent researchers find the paper to be reproducible?

          • legolas@fedit.pl
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            27 days ago

            Well maybe. Apparntly some folks are already doing that but its not done yet. Let’s wait for the results. If everything is legit we should have not one but plenty of similar and better models in near future. If Chinese did this with 100 chips imagine what can be done with 100000 chips that nvidia can sell to a us company