I have no doubt the EU won’t have much mercy for American corporations going* forward.
My phone REALLY wants me to type gong. Gong gong gong gong gong.
bro be like
Gong gong, gonging gong gong!
Go ahead, this is a safe space. Get it out of your system.
Maybe Nintendo, Sony and MS will be next?
I want a 3rd party store on all my consoles, why can’t I?
Not skilled enough hackerboy 😉🫶🏻
Mod your damn consoles!
While I don’t think people get consoles without homebrew being unlocked first it is still better for homebrew to be unlocked on day 1
It will also give the possibility of open development
😮how got my obviously joking answer so many down votes??
Of course it would be better if the console come open already
I personally just love the hacking part of following hacks.guide
Most every major company tries to build a walled garden. Apple does so via apps and services, services like netflix do by making sure you can’t watch shows on any other service (arr!), or even something as simple as cordless tools that have proprietary batteries and chargers where it gets really expensive to have to buy different batteries.
Destroys their entire business model 😂
Well, they did get them to switch to USB-C, so I’m not holding my breath, but I do hope that this will lead to more interoperability. I’m tired of Apple making Android/non-Apple users feel like second-class citizens.
I have to agree. Switching to USB-C is a big step, but I doubt Apple will become more interoperable unless they are forced to.
I still don’t think that one was actually the EU’s doing. Macs got USB C before most PCs, iPads had it for a long time before iPhones, and iPhones switched over 10 years after Apple announced lightning saying it would be their connector “for the next decade”
Apple got an special exemption the last time the EU standardised the port to Micro-USB.
The writing would have been on the wall for them. Especially as thunderbolt 3+ uses the USB-C connector, there was no guarantee the EU would give them exception again, and lightning is almost certainly not designed to handle the wattage needed to charge a Mac.
But otherwise, if not compelled, I doubt that Apple would have carried it over to the mobile devices. The timing is fortuitous, but likely because Apple has a little leeway before the EU forbade their devices/fined them for not following the law.
Even then, for whatever reason, a (grantedly cheap) 3,5mm->USB-C adapter my dad bought didn’t work at all on his iPhone while it works just fine on my Android
I was so hyped when the EU pressured Apple into allowing external software on Apple devices.
Apple killed that hype making the change EU only, problem is I’m encapsulated in the walled garden with an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Air Tags, HomePods.
Thinking of getting a second phone Android based to partially-escape the garden but if I ditch my iPhone all hell will break loose network wise.
I was you up until 3 months ago. I went nuclear and focused on the more open source side of android and have been so much happier for it. Sold everything to afford the changes.
Huge win!
There should be a porn movie with that headline
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It’s a shame Epic lost this lawsuit in the US because “just switch to Android”
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Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Steam doesn’t belong in that list because you’re free to use whatever game store you want on a PC. No computers are limited to only using Steam.
Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
And now SteamOS is being used in other platforms, so you can use the software on other hardware vendors if you like
Of those steam is the only one that doesn’t force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
Aren’t all Xbox games on windows now? Either through steam, the Microsoft store, or gamepass?
Are you able to buy a game on an xbox without paying a cut to microsoft? Because you can buy a game on steamdeck without giving valve a cut. Though I suspect the vast majority don’t because valve actually work for their cut given the tools they have made to help games run on the hardware even if the game wasn’t built for it.
You still have the freedom to not use alternative app stores.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available. According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe). I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.
as long as you don’t want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn’t made by Apple
I’m having trouble conceptualizing the words you just used in my brain.
Yea, now try to get away from apple again
They have me as well, because I am connected with my family through various apple only features now. Apple One, apple family share, location sharing with family, mail service, photos in the cloud, and a lot more
My family would rather gift me an iPhone than switching all to FOSS services, hell, even only switching my GF to not iOS is pain.
My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
Vertical integration is bad, m’kay?
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
I dunno, are meals provided in the locked room? The world is a pretty fucking awful place right now.
Yes but only oatmeal (no toppings).
Oh goddamnit
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
There is no security by obfuscation
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
It’s called something android core, you can uninstall it, but it may comeback each update.
That’s the lie they tell you, yeah.
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I’m spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can’t do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can’t get) so they make more money. It’s not great that this is so widespread now. At least there’s people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an “easy mode” where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that’s totally fine. Just don’t force it onto everyone.
The issue with “easy mode” is that it can be disabled. Scammers can and will find ways to trick grandma into disabling easy mode on her devices and then get her to install malware.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother getting an iOS device if thats not what you’re after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That’s totally fine… But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There’s no reason you couldn’t hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don’t think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
What’s the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That’s the part I don’t quite understand. It could be disabled by default and require the user to enable an “expert” or “full featured” mode, or something like that.
I think we’re going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. Apple’s software will have to compete on merit, not just win by default because it’s the only choice available on the device.
I’m actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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That is such an unbelievably idiotic statement.
“I don’t like it so no one else should have it”, is that your argument? You lose absolutely nothing by Apple opening up their platform. You can just continue to use the app store and it will literally be like nothing happened.
I dont want you in my device. I dont want your third parties. I have no desire to make my device more vulnerable just so you can install malware on yours. Any open apple device is a risk to my closed apple device.
Learn to take “no” for an answer. Let me enjoy the product and use it as I intended. I don’t use it for you.
The UK is so fucking nosey.
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it’s way more secure.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
Would grapheneOS work well on a Boox Tab Ultra C?
No. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel devices. I do not know if the Boox boot loader can be unlocked to support any custom ROMs.
Graphene doesn’t support any of my banking or MFA apps, at least last time I tried it.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.
Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
It’s so weird. I can kind of understand this level of ignorance on other platforms, but here? The platform a majority of the people actively sought out because they saw what happens when a walled gardens starts turning against its users?
At the very least, I would’ve expected better arguments than “I don’t want this, so I oppose other’s from having that option.”
it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
That argument sounds great in theory, but would break down after a month or less, when companies start moving their apps off of Apple’s App Store and onto a 3rd party store that allows all the spyware Apple has forced them to remove if they want to have an iOS market. This move DOES force people to use alternate app stores when companies start moving (not copying, moving) their apps over to said stores to take advantage of the drop in oversight.
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Oh no, not more freedom and rights, please no!
I’m not affected by this in the slightest, and I do not think people that buy iOS devices will care about their newfound freedom
Yeah, most Apple users won’t care or even know, and will just keep using whatever it is that Apple gives them. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
Meanwhile, people who are at least slightly more informed will benefit from the freedom. Things like this are needed because informed consumers too are getting shafted in about every product category. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
There are also those of us who like some Apple products but do not buy them because of the walled garden. The EU might improve choices for us too.
Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I don’t see how we need to regulate something that doesn’t benefit anyone as everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I hear they also made crimes illegal. Problem fucking solved.
doesn’t benefit anyone
But it does? Some Apple users will try something else, and even if you aren’t one of them, these practices spread. When Apple gets away with something, others will follow. Android is also getting more locked down with each major release. Maybe you use a linux phone or none at all?
everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
The fact that this issue is being discussed by us here and meps/commissioners/etc. at Brussels is proof that not everyone is uninformed and don’t care.
What’s to gain by not regulating this? Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse? You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level? Everyone should suffer because iphone users are dumb?
Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
Android is also getting more locked down with each major release
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level
Nobody is affected by apple devices getting locked down except apple users, and they chose that.
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
I wish. Celebrating customers getting shafted seems counterproductive though. In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products. Regulation can keep them in check and consumers sure as hell won’t.
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
I know, I run a custom rom too. I also know that custom roms are still Android, meaning they aren’t safe. What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Nobody is affected … except apple users
Yes they are. All large companies are constantly looking for more things they can get away with and are ratcheting towards user hostility.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked. Because what else are they gonna do, not buy a phone? How is a chimp gonna install Graphene when unlocked bootloaders are extinct?
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Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
they bought a politician or twelve … the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
The whole point of a walled garden is to stop people (their wallets, really) leaving.
Not only that, it’s also to prevent outside entitys from “hunting” on your playground.
That doesn’t really change anything - you can switch from iOS at any time if you so desire. Most people just find it too inconvenient.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you. There’s a whole reason IT exists because people are fucking stupid and do stupid shit with their freedoms. This, in turn, can really hurt others (viruses, worms, botnets, etc) and opening things up really just means larger attack spaces with many more vectors for entry.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers. Doesn’t the whole of Lemmy bitch about what we’ve done here in America because of being uninformed? Same principles apply to even lesser things like tech.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you
That’s just the lemmy hivemind. Nothing to really worry about. When leaving reddit for lemmy, I was 100% expecting that one thing to stay, and I was correct.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers
Absolutely, I totally agree with that - I’m very sure that many problem we currently have wouldn’t even be a thing if consumers made informed decisions and not ordered everything off amazon because “it’s easy lol”.
Except it is that hard because companies collude and work to drive the competition out of business.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
Walled gardens are not good for anyone.
Apple is free to sell phones where walled gardens are allowed. You’re also free to stay in the walled garden, Apple lied to you.
Yeah because using Android is so difficult
If but perfect you mean perfectly exploitative, sure. The walled garden issue has nothing to do with ease of use my friend; in fact, the whole point is to do the opposite - make anything outside the wall impossibly hard to access or use.
No one is forcing you do use apps outside of the app store. It’s about choice.
If such a competitor emerged they’d not be able to trade in the EU, given the size of the EU economy that ain’t happening.
It is not the walled garden that makes it easy, I mean, only because you open up doesn’t mean that your costumer still can buy only apple and it just works…
You’re right, they are like a bike with training wheels, helmet, and pads.
