Yeah, most Apple users won’t care or even know, and will just keep using whatever it is that Apple gives them. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
Meanwhile, people who are at least slightly more informed will benefit from the freedom. Things like this are needed because informed consumers too are getting shafted in about every product category. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I hear they also made crimes illegal. Problem fucking solved.
doesn’t benefit anyone
But it does? Some Apple users will try something else, and even if you aren’t one of them, these practices spread. When Apple gets away with something, others will follow. Android is also getting more locked down with each major release. Maybe you use a linux phone or none at all?
everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
The fact that this issue is being discussed by us here and meps/commissioners/etc. at Brussels is proof that not everyone is uninformed and don’t care.
What’s to gain by not regulating this? Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse? You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level? Everyone should suffer because iphone users are dumb?
Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
Android is also getting more locked down with each major release
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level
Nobody is affected by apple devices getting locked down except apple users, and they chose that.
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
I wish. Celebrating customers getting shafted seems counterproductive though. In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products. Regulation can keep them in check and consumers sure as hell won’t.
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
I know, I run a custom rom too. I also know that custom roms are still Android, meaning they aren’t safe. What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Nobody is affected … except apple users
Yes they are. All large companies are constantly looking for more things they can get away with and are ratcheting towards user hostility.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked. Because what else are they gonna do, not buy a phone? How is a chimp gonna install Graphene when unlocked bootloaders are extinct?
In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products
Because people will still eat the shit thrown in front of them. Why bother with good products when the doofus buys it anyways?
What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Well, yes, that would most likely be the result. Even now, some apps aren’t working - the commerzbank banking app, for example, didn’t work on graphene (because of play protect tho, not incompatibility). I was emailing them, asking if they planned to change it, they said “nah fam sorry no time” so I was switching to revolut. Recently, revolut made some steps into that aswell and I’m more than ready to switch again, but it seems like they didn’t pull through with their plans.
Again - rejecting somethign for moral reasons is never easy or comfortable.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked.
Yes, but that never happens. If there is no good option left, there will be another company filling the gap. Just look at what happened with lego - nobody was bothering creating a competition for them, they were the defacto standard if you wanted … well, lego. However, they because more expensive and worse and suddenly we have blue bricks and cobi, both much cheaper at a higher quality.
I know people on lemmy don’t want to hear it, but the free market works. It actually works extremely well. The only time when it does NOT work if there’s too much government interference so building a competition is too hard or when there is no choice on the side of the consumer, which is only really the case for crucial things like housing, food, healthcare etc.
I already wrote it somewhere, but people can’t choose to “not eat”. They can damn well choose to not buy a device from a company that is known to be anti-consumer.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you. There’s a whole reason IT exists because people are fucking stupid and do stupid shit with their freedoms. This, in turn, can really hurt others (viruses, worms, botnets, etc) and opening things up really just means larger attack spaces with many more vectors for entry.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers. Doesn’t the whole of Lemmy bitch about what we’ve done here in America because of being uninformed? Same principles apply to even lesser things like tech.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you
That’s just the lemmy hivemind. Nothing to really worry about. When leaving reddit for lemmy, I was 100% expecting that one thing to stay, and I was correct.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers
Absolutely, I totally agree with that - I’m very sure that many problem we currently have wouldn’t even be a thing if consumers made informed decisions and not ordered everything off amazon because “it’s easy lol”.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Oh no, not more freedom and rights, please no!
I’m not affected by this in the slightest, and I do not think people that buy iOS devices will care about their newfound freedom
Yeah, most Apple users won’t care or even know, and will just keep using whatever it is that Apple gives them. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
Meanwhile, people who are at least slightly more informed will benefit from the freedom. Things like this are needed because informed consumers too are getting shafted in about every product category. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
There are also those of us who like some Apple products but do not buy them because of the walled garden. The EU might improve choices for us too.
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I don’t see how we need to regulate something that doesn’t benefit anyone as everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
I hear they also made crimes illegal. Problem fucking solved.
But it does? Some Apple users will try something else, and even if you aren’t one of them, these practices spread. When Apple gets away with something, others will follow. Android is also getting more locked down with each major release. Maybe you use a linux phone or none at all?
The fact that this issue is being discussed by us here and meps/commissioners/etc. at Brussels is proof that not everyone is uninformed and don’t care.
What’s to gain by not regulating this? Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse? You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level? Everyone should suffer because iphone users are dumb?
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
Nobody is affected by apple devices getting locked down except apple users, and they chose that.
I wish. Celebrating customers getting shafted seems counterproductive though. In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products. Regulation can keep them in check and consumers sure as hell won’t.
I know, I run a custom rom too. I also know that custom roms are still Android, meaning they aren’t safe. What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Yes they are. All large companies are constantly looking for more things they can get away with and are ratcheting towards user hostility.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked. Because what else are they gonna do, not buy a phone? How is a chimp gonna install Graphene when unlocked bootloaders are extinct?
Because people will still eat the shit thrown in front of them. Why bother with good products when the doofus buys it anyways?
Well, yes, that would most likely be the result. Even now, some apps aren’t working - the commerzbank banking app, for example, didn’t work on graphene (because of play protect tho, not incompatibility). I was emailing them, asking if they planned to change it, they said “nah fam sorry no time” so I was switching to revolut. Recently, revolut made some steps into that aswell and I’m more than ready to switch again, but it seems like they didn’t pull through with their plans.
Again - rejecting somethign for moral reasons is never easy or comfortable.
Yes, but that never happens. If there is no good option left, there will be another company filling the gap. Just look at what happened with lego - nobody was bothering creating a competition for them, they were the defacto standard if you wanted … well, lego. However, they because more expensive and worse and suddenly we have blue bricks and cobi, both much cheaper at a higher quality.
I know people on lemmy don’t want to hear it, but the free market works. It actually works extremely well. The only time when it does NOT work if there’s too much government interference so building a competition is too hard or when there is no choice on the side of the consumer, which is only really the case for crucial things like housing, food, healthcare etc.
I already wrote it somewhere, but people can’t choose to “not eat”. They can damn well choose to not buy a device from a company that is known to be anti-consumer.
deleted by creator
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.
Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
The whole point of a walled garden is to stop people (their wallets, really) leaving.
Not only that, it’s also to prevent outside entitys from “hunting” on your playground.
That doesn’t really change anything - you can switch from iOS at any time if you so desire. Most people just find it too inconvenient.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you. There’s a whole reason IT exists because people are fucking stupid and do stupid shit with their freedoms. This, in turn, can really hurt others (viruses, worms, botnets, etc) and opening things up really just means larger attack spaces with many more vectors for entry.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers. Doesn’t the whole of Lemmy bitch about what we’ve done here in America because of being uninformed? Same principles apply to even lesser things like tech.
That’s just the lemmy hivemind. Nothing to really worry about. When leaving reddit for lemmy, I was 100% expecting that one thing to stay, and I was correct.
Absolutely, I totally agree with that - I’m very sure that many problem we currently have wouldn’t even be a thing if consumers made informed decisions and not ordered everything off amazon because “it’s easy lol”.
Except it is that hard because companies collude and work to drive the competition out of business.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.