Blackbeard, Colonial Revolutionaries, Jesse James, Billy the kid, Butch Cassidy, Wild Bill Hickock, Guy Fawx, Al Capone, John Dillinger, Bonnie & Clyde, Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahmer, OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, Donald Trump.
I don’t think Manson, Gacy, or Dahmer are idolized.
Simpson and Tyson are idolized for their non-criminal activities, not because they’re criminals. They’re not famous for being criminals, whereas most of the others are.
Trump is definitely an interesting one though…lol
Dahmer is one of those who had prison groupies. As do the Columbine shooters, Harris and Klebold. Apparently there’s a certain kind of chick that gets lubed up for mass murderers.
That’s a good point. I wouldn’t call that mainstream, though.
I’m not sure if Al Capone gets support the way that Walter White does or if he’s more of a Robin Hood…but a lot of the “heroic criminals” in US folklore (especially the criminals of the “wild West” who robbed banks and supported the poor) are purely the Robin Hood types.
Dahmer’s fans are crazy. As are the Columbine Shooters’ fans. But Robin Hood-types could generally be supported by the general person without raising an eyebrow these days.
I was thinking about that as I was typing them up. It’s really hard to draw a line on how criminal they are, or fame vs infamy, etc.
Yeah. The serial killers are definitely infamous, but nobody normal is thinking “Boy, we could sure use someone like that again”.
…but someone who goes around stealing from big banks and insurance companies while also destroying people’s mortgages (so they don’t have to make payments on their houses)? I’m sure some people could get behind that.
Especially with the reaction we’re seeing to the murder of the health insurance company CEO. I’m sure people have been coming up with lists of other deserving CEOs.
You just started naming criminals.
Gotta be honest, that’s literally what outlaw means
I’m not arguing but there was a clear delineation where it went from like 20s outlaws to like 1990s pop culture criminals.
That would be “time”… you go through history and eventually you get to 1990.
I think it crossed over with Manson which was 60s/70s but I think your point stands.
Some of the criminals after the crossover were cult leaders though…
I noticed that too. And I think it has to do with WW2. Hitler and his allies were the bad guys, and it seems there was a period going into and after the war where didn’t pay much attention to any other criminals. During this time we saw the birth of Super heroes, and we rallied around the good guys.
I think outlaw also implies being on the run.
Being an actual outlaw literally means you have been declared outside of the law for your presumed crimes. Anyone can kill you without question because society has washed its hands of you.
On the way to that status you will typically rack up some warrants and bounty offers.
Or not, depending on how corrupt the judge was.
I mean, yeah. The whole outlaw bit sort of implies crimes.
What did you expect?
George Floyd
I think George Floyd is mentioned by people to highlight how out of control the police in America are. They are thugs with badges, and they need to be reigned in, but that’s not likely to happen due to America leaning more toward “bootlicker” these days. George Floyd was murdered by shit cops. He should be remembered so we can hold bad police actions accountable. Fuck the police.
That’s more of a “minor crimes don’t deserve execution” thing
Bonnie and Clyde, Killdozer man, Al Capone, Christopher Dorner, Billy the Kid to name a few.
There are a few different common themes amongst them, either functioning as part of a gang or as a lone wolf, Bonnie and Clyde captured attention for the romantic twist attached to it.
There are also greater numbers of outlaws during periods where laws are hard to enforce due to remoteness and isolation (old west) or due to the laws being flaunted by basically everyone due to the laws being considered ridiculous (prohibition).
The key common theme is that they are viewed as fighting against an (what the public view as) unjust system, though often it’s more to do with their goals coincidentally aligning with the publics perception of an unjust system.
The guy who shot that CEO, is probably the most recent example…
Bonnie and Clyde
Is it just america? robin hood. guy fawkes.
Guy Fawkes isn’t idolised, the festival is about burning him alive and even if you don’t agree with that his reasons for doing what he did were shit
Ah. I guess V for vendetta made me think it was celebrating him.
That was an alternate history where he was successful and celebrated.
Brazil has Lampião and Padre Ciço. … Though Ciço is less ‘criminal’ and more ‘heretic’. He’s considered a saint by many nevertheless.
Guy fawks is British
Yes, that is the point
“is it just America? Guy Fawkes” means “is it just america? Guy Fawkes is an example of an outlaw idolized by Americans who is not himself an American”
I’d love to hear where you think Robin Hood is from
I thought both were from the uk.
They are
Yeah I can’t refute stinkys comment without actually living there or at least having a friend or something I stay in close contact with or something.
“is it just America? Guy Fawkes” means “is it just america? Guy Fawkes is an example of an outlaw idolized by Americans who is not himself an American”
yeah I thought he was idolized by ukians and maybe europeans.
From da 'hood, obviously.
I tend to think that Trump is getting idolized, too.
For being a criminal or by being a grifter?
Grifting is often illegal too.
There are people that will idolise all of these, even though they may be a minority. I don’t think that this is what OP meant.
How is Jesse James not at the top of this comment section?
Jesse James.
Billy the Kid.
Jeffery Dahmer.
Charles Manson.
Al Capone.
Baby Face Nelson.
And many, many more.
Out of all these, though, the only one I have seen still be idolized in some capacity is Dahmer. Women seem to love him, despite the fact he was gay. And a cannibal.
Bonnie and Clyde
also the most prominent idolized today isn’t Dahmer; it’s the guy who just got elected for president
Do people really idolize dahmer?
Yes
To that extent, Trump
I still think that guy needs to go fuck off a cliff, but he fits the premise right?
Billy the Kid.
The rap genre
Hehehe
The entire eastern genre
the entire western genre
Hehehe
I didn’t see no crime, the adjustor is a public servant, shitlord.
the adjustor
That’s what we’re going with? Works for me. I thought “Robin Hoodie” was a bit too generic. I like this one better.
I think my spelling is off tbh
Quick search here and on reddit showing that most people are using “the adjuster”
Either way has beautiful ring to it
Does Jack Sparrow count?
I think Rosa Parks and the Boston Tea Party-goers can be counted.
Was Robin Hood a real dude?
He is an established folklore character, but it may never be proven whether he was a real person or no.
True. But whether his actions were inspired by real events or purely fictional the character demonstrates the tendency of people to venerate the righteous outlaw.
Watched a thing on him recently. Sure he was, cause apparently he was from Doncaster, not Nottingham.
Julian Assange, Edward Snowden…
I think it comes from America’s roots – America was founded on liberty and freedom, and to some extent, questioning authority, and I think since then it’s been somewhat cyclical with socioeconomic changes.
It’s also part of the American mythos that is perpetuated in film and music. We have superheroes like Batman, Spider-Man, Green Arrow, western heroes like Zorro and the Lone Ranger, movies like Star Wars, The Hunger Games, Bonnie & Clyde, shows like Mr. Robot…
